Two Cruising Anchors to complement each other.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Thanks, Steve. The basic question is simply: which non-rollbar anchors that you've tested have done best in soft ooze/slimy mud?

Cheers, -Chris

In my "Soft Mud" seabed:

The 15 pound Fortress made more holding power than ANY of the 40-50lb "non-pivoting fluke" anchors.

Of the "non-pivoting fluke, non-rollbar" anchors, the 46lb ULTRA had the highest holding power.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Panope

In my "Soft Mud" seabed:

The 15 pound Fortress made more holding power than ANY of the 40-50lb "non-pivoting fluke" anchors.

Of the "non-pivoting fluke, non-rollbar" anchors, the 46lb ULTRA had the highest holding power.

Thanks, Steve, I really appreciate the quick cut-to-the-chase.

I haven't looked closely at Ultra anchors, mostly 'cause I've read they're expensive. I'll start more research on those...

Our results with Fortress have always been good here, too, but an appropriately large one wouldn't hang all that well on our existing bow roller. And since they break down and stow nicely, we usually keep one of those for back-up, emergency, kedge, etc.

-Chris

[Pelagic]

Now, this is what I'd call a controlled drag.....

https://youtu.be/KPEnIBn0PIo

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Now, this is what I'd call a controlled drag.....

https://youtu.be/KPEnIBn0PIo

Off topic but worth watching! Not sure anchor was dragging. But real skill and shows importan use of anchor. Elsewhere, I've watched many ferries in Greece do some remarkable docking after dropping anchors.

[MicHughV]

the last few seconds would appear to indicate that the anchor was not let out to bring the bow against the wharf..it is not moving, and ramrod straight, so likely dragging, for how long, could not say

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

the last few seconds would appear to indicate that the anchor was not let out to bring the bow against the wharf..it is not moving, and ramrod straight, so likely dragging, for how long, could not say

I have done a similar maneuver in high winds , knowing that the thruster's limit is about 28 knots

The controlled drag is the early deployment of off-dock anchor on a short scope as you maneuver parallel to pier at a distance testing for balance with opposing propellers as you drag bow down
Once you have judged that you have enough chain to reach the pier, you gravity feed out under high brake tension, testing for any remaining drag.

The last part shows control of stern by bridge and delicate anchor work by bow officer to allow stern to check and pivot on anchor for a gentle landing.
You will see bow come in at last moment with the release of a few links..... (terrific teamwork!)

Much nicer to do that with a commercial ship than a shiny Superyacht, where we have inflatable surge sausage fenders 4ft diam by 12ft length to protect the hull

[MicHughV]

I have on occasion had to come alongside like that in big wind..it is certainly a very tricky maneuver.....getting off again, is even trickier...

Some of these ships guys are pretty phenomenal in their ship handling skills...

[merrydolphin]

One thing I could tell you, neither would be a CQR Plow. Primary is a Spade. Love it. All chain. Don’t keep or want another on the bow, but do have second rode ready. Have 2 more stored below, a grapnel and a Delta. And one ( a fortress) ready on the stern.

[Talbot]

My anchors
Oversize manson supreme on 3/8 chain on the bow.
Large fortress available, but stowed aft (on the pushpit) with chain and rope in the anchor locker.

That video, you can clearly see that the anchor chain is not being veered, so the anchor is probably dragging, but also the chain is tightening. I initially thought that he must be doing this as a means of being able to get off the jetty when he leaves. Probably planned for both arrival and leaving. Regardless, that is an inspired bit of shiphandling.

[drcot3]

Rocna & danforth(Fortress) plus a fisherman`s steel throwaway copy of an anchor £5 to £10 homemade with 40/50 mm round steam/scaffold Tube + reinforcing 10/12 mm round steel flukes for rocky sea beds for lunch, if it gets stuck you can ditch it.
It`s really about the weight of your boat + style(rocna/fortress/Bruce/fishermans) + weight of anchor as well as thickness/length of chain and the most important thing, type of sea bed also don`t forget your alderney ring.

[Desertroseii]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I initially thought the Excel was just another Delta (which I think is generally a poor anchor). But further research, and the various tests, show this is not the case -- at all. As to why I think I'd choose it now, it is purely based on test results and anecdotes. I've never even seen one in person.

In reality, I'd probably be just as happy going with a Spade, or perhaps a Vulcan or Mantus 2. Even though I've been perfectly happy with the performance of my Rocna over nearly a decade, I'm being persuaded by the tests which indicate a roll bar can be problematic (although I've yet to experience it).

Mainly, I want to go one size up, so it's a good time to upgrade the tech too.



Hooked trees/logs, once a cable, and a few times it was so buried so deeply I almost couldn't get it out.

I still think the Rocna is an excellent anchor. I'd even go for a bigger one if that was in the offing. But my sense is there are better designs now.

30kg excel costs aud200 less than rocna25kg in OZ.
It is better built. No rollbar which in my opinion is a+.
Concave design brings less crap to the surface when you lift it up. It is superior to my old CQR original Manson. I am impressed with it. So far holding in every bottom I have encountered. My boat is 45feet. 14tonnes.

[56 South]

Originally Posted by Panope

Notwithstanding Noelexs' good advice, I would go with:

Anchor A: Ballasted fluke, rollbarless type (Spade, Excel, Vulcan, Mantus M2, Ultra, etc.).

and

Anchor B: Thin Unballasted Fluke, Rollbar type (Mantus M1, Rocna, Viking, Knox, etc.)

I have found a good correlation between those two groups whereby if group A performs well in a particular seabed, group B frequently performs not as well. And visa-versa.

Additionally, I would toss a Fortress in the bilge or on the stern rail.

Steve

Hello Steve

First let me thank you from all of us for your widely cited research which has been so valuable. Physicists would describe it as beautiful
Thank you

Your comments above are intensely interesting and I seek to understand them
Could you explain further please

In South Australia there is widespread use of anchor called a Marsh Stockless. It is almost unknown in the rest of Australia or elsewhere. It is a local version of the fisherman type and widely used on the rocky bottoms of the great Australian bight by yachties and professional fishermen

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Fun thread... Of course it is impossible to have anchors that would cover ALL bottoms. But if I could choose today I would pick an appropriately over-sized Excel and a Fortress (or possibly a Danforth).

+1 on that, exactly what I do. Excel is great and Fortress is a great complement to it.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by Shrew

What is the objective of the 2 anchor?

-> Backup bower?

If you are cruising in remote areas (e.g. South Pacific) and you lose your primary anchor because it gets wrapped around a bommie and you can't retrieve it (at least not immediately) having a backup anchor enables you to continue cruising until anchor can be retrieved. (Ordering a new anchor will take at least 2 weeks and cost you a kidney and possibly a lung.)

Originally Posted by Shrew

What is the objective of the 2 anchor?

-> Anchor for Bahama Mooring?

Bahama mooring is one alternative. A common tactic for storm anchoring is to set 2 (or more) anchors in tandem.

Originally Posted by Shrew

What is the objective of the 2 anchor?

-> Storage for a stern anchor?

Stern anchors on most boats are undersized to be used a primary anchor, and if they are large enough to be used as a primary anchor then retrieving off the stern would likely be difficult.

Originally Posted by Shrew

What is the objective of the 2 anchor?

-> Alternative anchor for different bottom types? If so, what bottom types?

Possibly, but modern anchor designs seem to be pretty darn effective in most bottom types.

Originally Posted by Shrew

What is the objective of the 2 anchor?

-> Large oversized storm anchor?

IMHO, if your primary anchor is not large enough to hold you in a storm (at least up to at least a fresh gale (Beaufort 8) it is probably too small.

Here is my advice for a long distance cruising boat.

As others have mentioned, a Rocna, Mantus, or other spade-type anchors are excellent in virtually all bottom conditions and have great reputations. The Fortress anchors are excellent in sand and mud; easily destroyed in rock / coral environments. (My preference is the Mantus M1. It is an unwieldy beast, but it has never failed to set properly. The extensions on the rollbar seem to give the spade a better angle to dig in quicker compared to a Rocna.)

Primary anchor should be at least one size larger than manufacturer recommended.

Primary anchor should be all chain rode; 100 meters. Scope is important. 3:1 is minimum and only useful in very sheltered areas. 5:1 is better.

If the anchor roller extends past the stemhead you should probably "beef it up." Seen lots of those rollers on production boats bend and contort into all sorts of unusable hunks of metal.

If possible, dive your anchor after setting it!

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

If you are cruising in remote areas (e.g. South Pacific) and you lose your primary anchor because it gets wrapped around a bommie and you can't retrieve it (at least not immediately) having a backup anchor enables you to continue cruising until anchor can be retrieved...

Of course a spare anchor is essential, maybe two or more, even.

That is not the same as two anchors on the bow roller all the time.