Two Cruising Anchors to complement each other.

[thinwater]

IMO, the best use for a second roller is for hammerlock mooring.

a. A NG bower is enough. IF I want to set two, the LAST thing I want to do is set them both from chain lockers (if the boat spins you are so screwed).
b. I will have a Fortress kedge, but in a stern locker (easier to load into the dinghy). I will also use this for V-anchoring sometimes.


If you MADE me pick two bower anchors, perhaps Mantus M1 and Spade. I'm not sayin' they are the best, only that they cover a wide range (Mantus is good for very hard and quite soft, Spade is good for everything else, and either will work 95% of the time and as a hammerlock). But really, anything works for a hammerlock... except a Fortress.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

I would store the Fortress at the standard 32°. At this setting it is much more versatile (although it still has limitations in weed and hard substrates).

The 45° setting is only for very soft substrates. If you try to use the Fortress set at the 45° setting in anything but a very soft substrate it will not set and has very minimal holding power.
.

Great advice as I am thinking of a Fortress as the backup anchor set up on Stbd side.

Little experience with them so for my size 65ft / 42 ton, what size would you recommend?

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Most interesting Steve.
I noted in a few of your rollbar type videos that the bar itself would often clog up, making reset difficult.
What type of substrates would the Rollbar outperform the rollbarless type in holding and Reset?

Depends on the size of anchor I reckon
In 5+ years of daily anchoring we have never had a clogged hoop, but run a 150lb suprene
And only one place where holding was less than optimal - liquid mud

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

...It would be interesting to hear from others what percentage of weight their ground tackle installed in the bow compares to their fully loaded weight..(note one or two anchors)

Cruising in the Philippines is a bit more WildWest as you are on your own,
No rescue services and up until a few years ago, the Met centre was terrible and still are confusing as they rename the storm, rather than keep the international name

With an average of 20 Typhoons per year, expect about 4 to come near you and locals will tie ferries to coconut trees and go home
Makes you extra careful about anchor flexibility.

We have 44lbs (Bruce) on the bow, all chain stored aft. Our boat weighs about 22000lb loaded. That is .2%

If we include the second Bruce (66lbs) which is stowed below deck in the mid forepeak, that's 110lbs, so then we have .5%

If I add the chain and the rode totalling 475lbs more, that's a total of 585lbs, 2.6%, not counting a few other anchors strashed around the boat which don't amount to much and aren't used on the bow..

The 44lb anchor has held very well in all cases for over 30 years. Even the biggest blow we anchored in (pictured above, post #16) did not cause it to drag, but we changed to the 66 out of caution.

We too have cruised in the Philippines and know full well that typhoons are common there, year around. You allways need to know where your nearest hurricane hole is and be prepared to get there quickly. Even in the Philippines we anchored with the 44lb Bruce, even when a typhoon came close and we moved to Port Uson, where we anchored in 30ft with soft mud, we felt safe with the 44lb anchor.

Perhaps our boat is light for a 43', and has low windage, but we've been very comfortable with far less ground tackle than most folks now feel is necessary.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

I brought my old CQR to a swap meet. No one wanted it. I had a hard time giving it away. The best place to stow one is down low in the bilge. The extra ballast increases a boats stability.

Yes, was never that impressed with the CQR.
But the previous owner had a love affair with them as I have 3 CQRs with the third in the lazarette.

The primary one is already off and is an art piece in our rental house Garden . If i buy a Fortress , then the second will join it with a life-sized statue of a sailor struggling to break free of two chains and anchors

I guess with the CQR he stands a good chance

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Even in the Philippines we anchored with the 44lb Bruce, even when a typhoon came close and we moved to Port Uson, where we anchored in 30ft with soft mud, we felt safe with the 44lb anchor.



Perhaps our boat is light for a 43', and has low windage, but we've been very comfortable with far less ground tackle than most folks now feel is necessary.

I think anchoring technique and knowing your boat plays a big part in anchor security and you have it figured out

Even with my much maligned CQR, I dragged only in liquid mud.

Now that I've added a large Solar Bimini and more solar above the davits, with that added windage, I decided to upside when replacing the worn out CQR

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Determining what anchor weight does to your boat trim is a complicated thing.

#1, as the bow goes down....even incrementally, the buoyancy displacement goes up. ie, more of your bow is immersed, but so too is the rest of the boat, so the boat will only go down until the weight of the anchor/chain reaches it's "new" hull displacement, which will be spread over the entire immersed hull.
#2. The rest of the boat also has to move, if the bow goes down, it stands the reason the stern will try to come up, however, both the stern and bow are attached to the boat...so the immersion factor must be spread over the entire length of the hull.

Switching gears for a minute...a car ferry usually loads from one end, but if any of you have ever been on a car ferry, you'll notice little or no movement of the ferry, even with a big truck coming on, while loading or unloading.

If your boat is at a dock, you can hang from the bow to see how much the bow dips down. Seeing as the average person is probably around 200 lbs, one can reasonable assume this to be the same as an anchor and chain.

The same argument can be said of dinghy davits, dinghy, outboard motor, solar panels, and all the other crap that usually finds it's way to the stern, either on the stern or in cockpit lockers. However, the stern is usually quite wide, hence has more "carrying" ability as it will have more displacement volume there. The bow having more of a tapered V shape has less reserve buoyancy.

Bottom line, while excess weight on the bow and stern is generally not an ideal thing, it's only the anchors that reach out over the water, the rode generally resides in a locker several feet back.

I can't see that having two anchors on the bow has ever really made the slightest bit of difference for me.

MchughV, It is not the steady state trim which makes much difference to the sailing boat, except as to how it affects weather or lee helm. In the days of tall ships sailing masters paid a great deal of attention to trim in order to cure lee helm or crankiness.

However now days few of us are as particular as the master of a full rigged ship was back in the day.

What matters now is the effect of weight in the ends of a vessel. a couple of hundred pounds extra in the bow and several hundred pounds extra hanging over the stern definately adds to "hobby horsing" and that slows a boat when going into bigger waves. It does not matter whether one is sailing or motoring. This extra motion may not be noticible, depending on how the boat behaves normally, but it is definately a factor, and is well known to naval architects and racing sailors.

And with respect to arches and other masses aloft in the aft end, windage and weight aloft also matter. Added together these things can have a big effect on how a boat performs.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

I brought my old CQR to a swap meet. No one wanted it. I had a hard time giving it away. The best place to stow one is down low in the bilge. The extra ballast increases a boats stability.

I actually managed to sell my old 45# Genuine CQR for $250 shortly after buying my Rocna. The fellow loved CQRs, so who was I to try and convince him otherwise .

That was about a decade ago. I just can't imagine anyone buying one now for much more than beer money. But you never know. There's that fellow over on that other anchor thread who insists they are the cat's pyjamas, so maybe...

[sv_pelagia]

I sold my 35lb genuine CQR perhaps 2-3 years ago. Can't remember what price, but it was an easy sale. (Easy in terms of selling and easy in terms of me letting go as it was too small.)

Currently have main anchor (25kg Rocna) and second anchor (20kg CQR by Danforth, quite beefy) at the bow. The "CQR" was originally the main anchor when I purchased Pelagia. To fit into the 2nd roller, the CQR is turned upside down and tied down. Sometimes I wonder about moving the CQR, but like having it ready.

Have dragged lots with CQR in days before Rocna; drag with Rocna has been rare but has occured with wind shift (still, it dug back in).

Previous boat before had oversized Bruce and we loved it (never dragged). Friends who buddy boat with us have Bruce and in blows have seemed as secure as us with Rocna

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Great advice as I am thinking of a Fortress as the backup anchor set up on Stbd side.

Little experience with them so for my size 65ft / 42 ton, what size would you recommend?

Normally, like many experienced cruising sailors, I have found "big is better" is the best phylsophy when it comes to anchor sizes with the obvious proviso that you need to be able to comfortably manage the anchor.

The Fortress anchor is slightly different. It has phenomenal holding power in the right (reasonably soft) substrate, but can fail very poorly in other substrates or when subject to changes in direction of pull. Thus even a relatively small Fortress anchor can hold a large boat in strong wind if the substrate is favourable for this model. On the other hand, unlike other anchor models, if the substrate is hard or weedy the anchor can have such poor holding ability that even oversizing the anchor may not be enough.

The other factor is that the large aluminium Fortress anchors are huge. They become unmanagable not because of the weight, but physical size, especially with the pivoting fluke that can easily trap fingers. People on boats of your size often purchase an FX-125 and because it is only 31 kg, think this will be manageable. Until they see the anchor.

The Fortress anchor sizing chart suggests a FX-85 for your sized boat, but Fortress acknowledges that these guidelines are for a maximum of 30 knots!. This is a pitiful number.

So try and see these anchors in person. if you can comfortably manage a FX-125, including deployment from the tender, then this would be a good a choice. If not, an FX-85 while only rated to 30knots will, in my view (not in the manufacturers view), manage much higher winds if the the substrate is suitable and the direction of pull is constant.

The Fortress is also ideal as a stern anchor deployed to keep the bow oriented into the swell. Here you can manage with a very small anchor. In fact, a small anchor with limited holding power that will "trip" if the wind picks up and there is danger of the boat being held beam on to a strong wind is arguably better. Here a very small anchor for your sized vessel say a FX-37 or even FX-23 can be ideal. If you see one of these anchors on sale it may be worth considering. There is also the the option of the Guardian anchor. This is also made by the same company but has no anodising, fixed fluke angle, no life time guarantee and fewer machining steps, but it is significantly less expensive.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Normally, like many experienced cruising sailors, I have found "big is better" is the best phylsophy when it comes to anchor sizes with the obvious proviso that you need to be able to comfortably manage the anchor.

The Fortress anchor is slightly different. It has phenomenal holding power in the right (reasonably soft) substrate, but can fail very poorly in other substrates or when subject to changes in direction of pull. Thus even a relatively small Fortress anchor can hold a large boat in strong wind if the substrate is favourable for this model. On the other hand, unlike other anchor models, if the substrate is hard or weedy the anchor can have such poor holding ability that even oversizing the anchor may not be enough.

Excellent thoughts Noelex... perhaps it was you I was channelling when I selected my FX-37 .

I made that choice based largely on the physical size, not the weight. I figured this was close to the largest size I could reasonably manage by myself. It also helped that it was nicely over-sized for my 37' boat (Fortress ranks it as good for a 46'-51' boat).

[MicHughV]

Wingsail, yes boat trim is important, no disputing that.

But honestly, my beer stash, prior to leaving on a trip, weighs more than all my anchors combined, and I have to find places for it in ever nook and cranny.

I'll remember all my hiding spots for a while, and try to work from the end of the boat to the center..but every once in while will come across a can I forgot about....always a surprise.....oh looky here, forgot I had stashed some beer here, no wonder the boat is out of trim"..

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

I brought my old CQR to a swap meet. No one wanted it. I had a hard time giving it away. The best place to stow one is down low in the bilge. The extra ballast increases a boats stability.

Mine (an original 20 lb'er) stays on the foredeck and is the main anchor so far over the last 10 years.

It has saved me many times when anchored close to shore during heavy onshore winds (and waves)

[Simi 60]

And....It.....Begins

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

And....It.....Begins

I think it's actually ....."and so it begins"

That would be over on the Construction, Maintenance, and Refit Forum.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ect-58124.html

(549,001 views)