Two Anchor Swivels

[Charlie]

Hi All:

Just bought a new boat in Ireland. A ten hour flight away. The previous owner had the boat for 10 + years and never anchored. Good thing as well since his anchor gear consisted of : 1) SS Bruce Anchor, 2) SS swivel, 3) About a meter of SS 3/8 chain, 4) a very cheap, non welded, and rusted chain link, and Finally 4) 30 meters of galvanized 3/8" chain. The 30 meters of chain is in good nick. I am thinking of putting another SS swivel to connect the SS to the Galvanized. The layout of the tackle is such that the second swivel will never touch the windlass. Two problems that I see are 1) It does fail the KISS principle and 2)It adds a second failure point. I am okay with these as the SS does look better going into the anchor locker.

Are there any other problems that anyone can see with the setup that I am envisioning?

My second option would be to remove the SS chain and go directly to the galvanized.

[SailingHarmonie]

Wow... all that JUST to have bling going down into your anchor locker? I had to read it three times to be sure what I was reading was correct.

If I was presented with that situation I'd do the following:

1. Sell the SS anchor to somebody silly enough to want boat jewelry;
2. Buy a modern design galvanized anchor;
3. Ditch the stainless steel chain.

You'll have a better anchoring system, and more money in your pocket.

You can make your own decisions about swivels. That's a complex topic, and depends a lot on what kind of swivel you have. In my opinion, MOST swivels are worse than nothing. Good ones are slightly helpful.

All that advice is assuming you actually want to anchor and not just have polished stainless on your bow to show how much money you can afford to waste.

[Benz]

Stainless steel underwater is undesirable. Second Harmonie's advice to go to an all-galvanized setup. Also agree about the uselessness of swivels.

[CarlF]

I would get a high quality galvanized shackle (in the US a Crosby 209 but I’m sure there are equally good brands in the UK) and use it to attach the galvanized chain to the anchor. The thick metal of a stainless anchor shank is at no risk of corrosion from dissimilar metals.

I gave up on swivels for short term anchoring (less than a week). They are a weak spot and cause the anchor to come up backwards to the roller 50% of the time. With the shackle and a chain rode to a windless it almost always comes up facing the right way. Twists from wind changes tend to work themselves out while the anchor is coming up after breaking loose.

[Don C L]

I too will second switching to all galvanized gear, with G43 chain, and removing the swivels. Check the breaking strength of the swivel vs. the chain.

[Anders]

I would ditch the SS Bruce and buy a Rocna, Spade or Mantus.
I would put 3 links of 12mm SS followed by a Kong swivel followed by 100m of 3/8 if that's what you actually have. It's much more likely to be 10mm if it's a European boat.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Anders

I would ditch the SS Bruce and buy a Rocna, Spade or Mantus.
I would put 3 links of 12mm SS followed by a Kong swivel followed by 100m of 3/8 if that's what you actually have. It's much more likely to be 10mm if it's a European boat.

I agree about ditching the Bruce.



Nothing wrong with SS anchors except cost. Even if you anchor out every night, the anchor will be in the air enough not to get crevice corrosion (which comes from loss of passivization), and anyway there shouldn't be any bits thin enough to matter. But hard to justify the cost -- ordinary Rocna, Spade or Mantus will be fine (Spade gets rusty fast though).


I would try not to use a swivel at all. It's an undesirable potential failure point, and if your anchor is properly balanced, you won't need it. Spade and Ultra balance very good; I've had back luck in this regard with Rocna. Haven't tried the Mantus.

[Charlie]

Thanks for the comments. I am missing the logic on some of the replies. SS anchors are way more expensive. A true fact -- but given I already own the SS anchor it will not cost me anything to keep it. The hassle of selling SS Bruce and then purchasing another modern galvanized anchor is not appealing. My goal is to sail the boat for six months before I spend any substantial money on "must have" items that never get used. Been there done that. Upon purchasing a new anchor I would go galvanized but in the mean time I am going to use the Bruce. Not saying it is as good as a modern anchor but they have been in use for many years.

Anders would you explain to me the purpose of the three links in front of the Kong swivel. Would that purpose be affected by having a meter instead of just three links? BTW you are probably right on the 10mm but the description said 3/8.

At this point I am leaning toward attaching the stainless steel chain to the anchor with a shackle. Should it be SS or Galv. I would prefer SS for looks but I seem to recall that galv shackles of equivalent size are stronger than SS. Is that correct?

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/pict...ship-40ds-8091

Pictures 21 through 23 actually show my boat's anchor.

[MicHughV]

What's with all this hating on the Bruce ?? The Bruce has served me well for 35 years.
I love it, and think it's a fine anchor and have no intention of ever using another type.

I agree about ditching the swivel.....absolutely worthless. Just attach with a plain 'ole galvanized shackle. I typically use two shackles here, one large one, with the pin thru' the anchor and one slightly smaller that has a pin that will go thru' the link on the chain. The two shackles must obviously interlock.

From time to time I'll lay out all the anchor chain on deck and untwist it if I feel it's necessary.

For sure get rid of all the SS stuff.....if you can find a buyer....otherwise keep the SS anchor, you've already got it, so no purpose in letting it go for cheap.

You should really have a selection of anchors onboard, no less than two, but four is better. Don't leave the dock without at least two.

Regarding the chain.....30M is about 100' of chain....you really need some nylon anchor rode attached to that....another 150' or so. This will require another shackle, unless you want to splice the nylon to the chain. I find it simpler to use another shackle.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Charlie

Anders would you explain to me the purpose of the three links in front of the Kong swivel. Would that purpose be affected by having a meter instead of just three links?

The purpose is to avoid sideload on the swivel incase the anchor ger stuck on something. In my case that's not really needed since even sideloaded the swivel is stronger than the chain. That the three links of chain is 2mm thicker means I can use a thicker and stronger shackle.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

snip

You should really have a selection of anchors onboard, no less than two, but four is better. Don't leave the dock without at least two.
Snip

Four anchors? I carry 2, and can understand having 3 in case you lose 1 or maybe the 3rd is special purpose, but what would you do with 4?
Edit: Also, it’s non-trivial to have space for an extra anchor and rode. Most of us need to think about what to give up to find room for each extra large thing we bring aboard.

[MicHughV]

It's simple.
I carry two primary anchors (both Bruce) on the bow like most boats. Occasionally, I find a need to anchor with two anchors in tidal situations, etc.
I carry a simple danforth type anchor at the stern rail. I have on occasion, run aground, and this facilitates getting off by pulling the boat backwards. It is not tied to a rode, but I have a rode handy in a stern locker. This keeps the deck clear. It takes a minute to attach the rode to the anchor.
Down below, I keep a "storm" anchor. This is a fold up northhill ss anchor. It has a home in the forward cabin under a berth. I will drag this out, if threatening weather approaches.
Finally, my dink has an anchor, it lives in the dink, mostly.

If you are mostly coastal cruising, etc, yes, I agree, four anchors is likely an overkill, but if headed offshore to places unknown, most people have at least four.

[sailingharry]

For starters, I approve of the OP's desire to minimize expense for 6 months while deciding what to do. Replacing everything on the boat in the first week makes no sense, and this system is at least reasonably functional as it sits. I would take the primary chain straight to the anchor with a shackle, or more likely it would require a double shackle since a shackle that fits the chain will probably not fit the anchor.

Agree strongly with all the disapproval on stainless, but also agree with the sentiment that if you have it keep it, the dislike is not strong enough to simply replace it.

I also agree strongly with the positions about swivels. We have spent 7 months and 7,000 NM on our boat the last two summers, and have spent over half the nights on our own anchor. Never had a problem the swivel would answer -- but also never spent 3 nights in one location. I also am highly skeptical of the assertions by the manufacturers that swivels are strong. I find it odd that a high test steel shackle can barely be made strong enough and still physically fit through the chain, but stainless steel with dramatically lower material strength can be made to fit.

I would also look carefully at the galvanized chain. It is 3/8, so plenty big, although we do not know what size boat it is on. My concern is given the PO's obvious focus on looks without regard to function has me wondering if that 3/8 is BBB (2650lb) or proof (also 2650lb) . It may or may not be suitably strong for the vessel (g4, for instance, at 5400lb). Compared to stainless S4 at 2400lb -- see https://suncorstainless.com/wp-conte...in_S4_316L.pdf

[MicHughV]

Chain strength ratings are usually given as a WLL (working load limit) and usually have a 5:1 safety factor.
So a working load limit of 2605 lbs for 3/8" BBB chain, implies a breaking strength of 13,250 lbs.
Not that you'd want to load it that far, but given that the breaking strength of ....say 5/8" nylon is around 9,000 lbs, the nylon should break before the chain does.
A 3/8" shackle has a WLL of around 2,000 lbs, with a breaking strength of 10,000 lbs...
So taken altogether, a fairly stout setup for anchoring.
Chain link sizes differ to accommodate various anchor winch sprockets, and some grades are obviously stronger than others, if weight savings becomes an issue.
Many choices.

[flightlead404]

I’m no expert but have anchored an couple hundred nights over the 2 years and have seen no need for a swivel. My rocna does occasionally try to stow inverted when it has a heavy load of mud on it, but a quick lower and raise will cure that

On the other hand we’ve spent a couple weeks anchored in a small creek that runs from the gulf side to the Atlantic side in the keys with big current swings. We had no issues but one of the standard half derelict semi-live aboards here broke loose because the swivel failed