Trusting junk?

[nimblemotors]

Originally Posted by jjlyons

I really loved Nimblemotors' suggestion. I have just the half sunk, lead keeled boat in mind in the harbor.

Thanks, I hope it got a chuckle, but seriously you could use the lead keel,
cutaway the rest of it so not to 'leave trash' on the bottom.
Would also be helping the environment to get rid of unsightly boat.
But obviously a lot of work compared to other options.

I agree that making your own helix anchor is probably the best idea.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I don't want to jump to a conclusion either, but if I was, you sound like an ill informed flag waving ignoramus.

Jim

+1

[crazyoldboatguy]

I don't see how using welded steel anchors or a helical anchor is in any way dumping junk on the bottom. Eventually the environment would rust it all away, wouldn't it?

The bay sounds quite open and remote. How much crap do you think 2 people would leave there, literally? I hear folks lamenting the dumping of waste into the pacific while ignoring all the crap the fishies also dump into the same water.

Damn hippies'll probably walk the beaches and clear all the trash while they're at it - sheesh.

[hpeer]

FWIW, my suggestion about the big 275kb Mantus was to "set it and forget it." NEVER pick it up, consider it a morning.

They do break down and ship relatively well.

If you think of all the time and effort you put into the cement etc, suggestions, it might be a reasonable answer. I think about handling big hunks of concrete for an aluminum skiff and have my doubts.

I suppose you COULD pick it up if you ever wanted to.

[captain58sailin]

Another possibility is, contact the local fish plants either in Kodiak, Kenai, or Homer. Some of them can provide a mooring, buoy, anchor set up, for about $2500, and the tender can set it for you. Otherwise I have a recently removed 471 w/ a 506 twin disc reduction gear you can buy for $1500, mind you it still is operational, but I don't have any further need for it and want it off my trailer. The engine alone is about 1800 lbs. so with the reduction gear it would run a little over a ton. As stated before drums do not sit still on the bottom.

[FamilyVan]

Well, the smallest buoys spars and the like generally use 5000 lb stones. Your boat has a lot more windage and wetted surface area than a 2 1/2 foot spar buoy, so I think your plan is risky. One thing you can do is rather than increase the weight of the material you can increase the density of the anchor material. Steel works pretty well. Can you get your hands on some train wheels? Another good option is go to some local commercial fishing ports and get your hands on an old ship anchor.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[hellosailor]

"Eventually the environment would rust it all away, wouldn't it? "
You'd be surprised. In the 80's we were told to throw cans overboard, they'd rust quickly. In the 90's we were told the cans hadn't gotten the message, they weren't rusting.
Last summer, my friend boating in an inland lake got a surprise. Some nimrod had installed a heavy pipe, perhaps a signpost, under his dock space and with drought water levels...it ate his prop. After being there unprotected and unsuspected for over 15 years.


So while restoring iron ore back into the earth from which it came might seem like a good idea? Everything has tradeoffs. A true conservationist probably would have to move off-planet, to stop disturbing the ecosystem here.

[Tayana42]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I don't want to jump to a conclusion either, but if I was, you sound like an ill informed flag waving ignoramus.



Jim

Good on you Jim!!!


S/V B'Shert

[atoll]

I like the idea of the fly wheels being progressively added to a heavy duty mooring chain.

in your case,with the aid of the tide and a few plastic 44gallon drums it would not take long to cast a series of reinforced concrete slabs with a hole in the center and progressively drop them until the equivalent of 5-7000lbs is reached,plastic sheeting and 4 planks would be all you need for your mold.

4 drums would easily float a 700lb slab,just wait for the tide at springs to move the slabs,which could be cast at neaps to give them time to set.

just would need to bring in cement and rebar,sand and gravel you will have to find on the beach.

[crazyoldboatguy]

An iron post in an inland lake - can we presume the inland lake is fresh water? While electrolysis exists in bodies of water with little or no salt in it, the galvanic action necessary to reduce a steel pipe to a pile of rust is going to take eons more time than in a body of salt water.

I would be against doing such in a crowded anchorage - probably not allowed in any event. But in an empty cove in wilderness Alaska - maybe not such a problem - no different that a few barrels filled with rubble.

We anchored off Key West Bight a few years ago - a large anchorage filled with boats in varying degrees of decrepitude. I typically dive on my ground tackle to confirm a good hold. Criminy - the bottom was littered with junk - cables, barrels, cans - amazing. Apparently, there aren't many folks who anchor there who abide by the "if you brung it, you should take it with you" mantra.

[hellosailor]

Fresh water, salt water, common misconception, it makes no real difference. About 30 years ago an archaeology team pulled up a revolutionary war vintage cannonball from the yes, partly saline, banks of the Chesapeake someplace. Buried in the mud, like a mooring, it was uncorroded and in fact the mud sealed it up so well, the 200+ year old cannonball still exploded, to the great pleasure of E.I.DuPont Denemours & Co., who made the stuff.


That "it won't last in salt water" was disproved with the soda and beer cans in the 80's. It lasts. Cold water, low oxygen, deep mud, an engine block will be around long after you and I are gone.

[Hard Rock Candy]

Somewhere about 2 and 1/2 Billion years ago a small creature that ate carbon dioxide and **** calcium carbide ?? had the ecosystem to themselves for an awful long time. they made huge land masses that is most of the rock under Australia . they were part of the ecosystem then. We are part of the ecosystem now. It is very doubtful that our addition to the record will be available for study in that period of time in the future. And it sure won't be humans doing the study unless we get our **** together very soon. mac

[JPA Cate]

There has been a lot of interesting input here on solving the lyons' mooring problem.

So over to you, OP, which solutions most appeal?

Ann

[crazyoldboatguy]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Fresh water, salt water, common misconception, it makes no real difference. About 30 years ago an archaeology team pulled up a revolutionary war vintage cannonball from the yes, partly saline, banks of the Chesapeake someplace. Buried in the mud, like a mooring, it was uncorroded and in fact the mud sealed it up so well, the 200+ year old cannonball still exploded, to the great pleasure of E.I.DuPont Denemours & Co., who made the stuff.


That "it won't last in salt water" was disproved with the soda and beer cans in the 80's. It lasts. Cold water, low oxygen, deep mud, an engine block will be around long after you and I are gone.

All true - except, what harm is 3 anchors going to do to that ecosystem up there?

The Great Lakes are littered with the hulks of sunken vessels, preserved in the deep, cold, low oxygen waters. Thousands of them. And yet, there is little angst over the presence of these vessels and the iron attached to them. Wood vessels nearly 150 years old remain intact (see the Cornelia Windiate - sunk in 1878) with all the iron used to pin their timbers together. The Edmund Fitzgerald lies in pieces on the bottom of Lake Superior. "Iron"ically, the 728' steel vessel lies in 530' of water, her cargo of nearly 25,000 tons of taconite (high grade iron ore, for you salt water folks) lying scattered, untouched, over the bottom of the lake.

Sheet steel is used as pilings - driven deep into the bottom to hold the rubble behind it and the seas in front of it. No one gives it much mind. In fact, folks count on the ability of the steel/iron to withstand the rigors of even the corrosive salt environment. But, no matter what, unprotected - the steel will rust away. It just takes a little time, is all. Be patient, Grasshopper.

[rwidman]

Along those same lines, why is it we can chop up a couple of fish and throw them overboard and call it "chum" and that's fine but if we cook the fish first and eat a few bites and throw the rest overboard that's "garbage" and illegal?