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27-10-2024, 13:34
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego
Boat: Helmsman 43 Trawler
Posts: 74
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Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
We get at least 5 transient sailboats washed up on our beaches every year. I am referring to transients, not Cruisers. Most dump their black tanks and play the game bouncing between anchorages until they are chased out. Their boats are junk, ground tackle is crap, and no PM done by most of them because they are high on drugs or just plain lazy.
Here is the latest from this week. Sailboat in 15 ft of water. USCG is calling out a Haz to Mariners on Ch 16 every 4 hours until it can be removed. That doesn't cut it, especially at night.
And spare me the "only in California BS". This stuff happens in FL and many other coastal areas.
I have been working with local authorities including a meeting several months ago with port management and harbor patrol, but nothing changes.
I am a moderate and understand the mechanism's of homelessness, but allowing this to occurr is not the answer.
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27-10-2024, 15:29
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,982
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Re: Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
When you are addressing a topic as controversial as this one, language matters. I would respectfully suggest that in the nautical context the word "transient" is not the right word to use.
I appreciate this is the currently woke word to use for "homeless bum", but in the nautical world it really has retained its original meaning, i'e., someone who is on the move. Every marina has slips for "transients" that are rented for a day or two at a time.
Boats such as you describe are the plauge of the waterways. They are not in any real sense "transient" because most of them can barely move under their own power.
I do not know of the perfect word in common usage for the kind of boat you describe. In some places they are referred to as "anchor-outs", and in others "liveaboards." Both of which really don't capture the meaning that we really want to convey.
I would suggest that we pull up a perfectly good word, that is rarely used now. We should cal these "vagrant boats", or maybe "tramp boat". At least for me it captures the real meaning of the idea, and does not suck other responsible boat owners along for the ride as the words "transient" or "liveaboard" do.
But in the current political climate, we probably have to use a word that is stripped of all subjective meaning. Maybe an "unlanded person" would pass muster, although is surely would be hard to use without giggling.
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27-10-2024, 15:49
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North of San Francisco, Bodega Bay
Boat: 44' Custom Aluminum Cutter, & Pearson 30
Posts: 819
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Re: Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
I refer to them as floating dumpsters. Is that PC enough for this topic. I live in California too, and would love to see all the floating dumpsters gone from the waterways and marinas.
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27-10-2024, 16:08
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: home town Wellington, NZ and Savusavu Fiji
Boat: Reinke S10 & Raven 26
Posts: 1,389
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Re: Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
I'd not heard the word transient before to describe such boats and their owners. Irrespective the issue confronts more than just California and Florida. It's a serious problem all over New Zealand and Fiji too.
I think perhaps it was heightened by the ending of the pandemic. Some such boats just seem to have been forgotten, or perhaps their owners have died and family either don't want the responsibility, have no idea how to deal with the boat, or perhaps don't even know of the boat's existence. Or perhaps there's no family.
Many too are absentee owners who've sailed across the Pacific and for one reason or another their dream ended with the reality of where to now? Hence my perception that many such boats arrived here for the cyclone season preceding Covid, with their owners returning home, never to return to their yacht.
Quibbling on CF over the appropriate pejorative doesn't help. Any positive suggestions?
A local NZ news story about the problem.
__________________
Grant Mc
The cure for everything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea. Yeah right, I wish.
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27-10-2024, 19:18
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#5
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 14,960
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Re: Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
It isn’t always someone trying to live on the hook. The image of a “bum” is not necessarily helpful too. In Santa Barbara many more derelict boats have been deposited in the anchorage by people who bought the slip to move their new boat into and then just anchored the old boat out. One would hope this was just temporary until it was sold or sent to the crusher, but every once in a while one ends up on the beach. I suppose it is a matter of jurisdiction, enforcement and money to impound and dispose of boats that are abandoned. For those boats where someone is living aboard, it’s a tough call. Do we eliminate all liveaboards in anchorages? Who should pay for the moving and disposal of derelict boats, and who decides the definition of derelict or abandoned?
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
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30-10-2024, 16:45
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego
Boat: Helmsman 43 Trawler
Posts: 74
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Re: Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
Quote:
Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie
When you are addressing a topic as controversial as this one, language matters. I would respectfully suggest that in the nautical context the word "transient" is not the right word to use.
I appreciate this is the currently woke word to use for "homeless bum", but in the nautical world it really has retained its original meaning, i'e., someone who is on the move. Every marina has slips for "transients" that are rented for a day or two at a time.
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I would respectfully suggest that you avoid using the word "woke" on the forum. It is a made up word designed to stir people up and has absolutely nothing to do with my post.
Lastly, I don't post much on forums these days but I was pretty fed up last week. I had been requesting meetings with the powers to be in our area and finally got an audience to discuss the subject, but nothing has changed. Ok, getting off my soap box and signing out for good on the subject.
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30-10-2024, 18:00
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Morgan 382
Posts: 3,462
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Re: Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
Quote:
Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie
I do not know of the perfect word in common usage for the kind of boat you describe. In some places they are referred to as "anchor-outs", and in others "liveaboards." Both of which really don't capture the meaning that we really want to convey.
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Floating Meth labs?
Floating Felony?
Floating Blight?
Seaside Scourge?
Sea Scourge?
Or if you must be overly PC, "Neurochemical challenged unhoused Captain."
__________________
-Warren
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30-10-2024, 18:08
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Morgan 382
Posts: 3,462
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Re: Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L
It isn’t always someone trying to live on the hook. The image of a “bum” is not necessarily helpful too. In Santa Barbara many more derelict boats have been deposited in the anchorage by people who bought the slip to move their new boat into and then just anchored the old boat out. One would hope this was just temporary until it was sold or sent to the crusher, but every once in a while one ends up on the beach. I suppose it is a matter of jurisdiction, enforcement and money to impound and dispose of boats that are abandoned. For those boats where someone is living aboard, it’s a tough call. Do we eliminate all liveaboards in anchorages? Who should pay for the moving and disposal of derelict boats, and who decides the definition of derelict or abandoned?
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I recently learned of the cost and difficulty to get a slip in Santa Barbara. Honestly, it really seems like the city is just trying to reserve the harbor for the richest in the State and push average (not even poor) people out of the community. Who the eff would otherwise pay close to 100k for a 30 foot slip, and then still pay monthly rent on par with the most expensive slips in the state?
Whatever issues SB has with abandoned boats in the anchorage, they created it by letting that racket exist.
__________________
-Warren
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30-10-2024, 20:37
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Alameda, California
Boat: Islander 36
Posts: 142
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Re: Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
I call them Bum Boats (I like alliterations).
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30-10-2024, 22:00
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#10
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 14,960
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Re: Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
Quote:
Originally Posted by wholybee
I recently learned of the cost and difficulty to get a slip in Santa Barbara. Honestly, it really seems like the city is just trying to reserve the harbor for the richest in the State and push average (not even poor) people out of the community. Who the eff would otherwise pay close to 100k for a 30 foot slip, and then still pay monthly rent on par with the most expensive slips in the state?
Whatever issues SB has with abandoned boats in the anchorage, they created it by letting that racket exist.
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Supply and demand. It's been like that forever there. The slip fees are actually less than what I pay in Channel Islands harbor. I had a 24' boat in a slip there from'79 to '88. The 25' slip cost me $5k at the time as I recall. A lot of wealthy folks have moved to Santa Barbara over the years, and it's kind of a small harbor compared to others in SoCal. The harbor is city owned, if it were privately owned I'm sure the waiting list would be a mile long and slip fees would be triple probably. The city gets their share now, they charge a pretty steep transfer fee now too. Pretty good investment though if you can afford one! An old, non sailing Cal 28 with a 28 foot slip was asking $75,000. Don't know if they got it yet though.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
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31-10-2024, 00:47
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: San Diego
Boat: Jeanneau 349
Posts: 659
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Re: Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdpaddler50
We get at least 5 transient sailboats washed up on our beaches every year. I am referring to transients, not Cruisers. Most dump their black tanks and play the game bouncing between anchorages until they are chased out. Their boats are junk, ground tackle is crap, and no PM done by most of them because they are high on drugs or just plain lazy.
Here is the latest from this week. Sailboat in 15 ft of water. USCG is calling out a Haz to Mariners on Ch 16 every 4 hours until it can be removed. That doesn't cut it, especially at night.
And spare me the "only in California BS". This stuff happens in FL and many other coastal areas.
I have been working with local authorities including a meeting several months ago with port management and harbor patrol, but nothing changes.
I am a moderate and understand the mechanism's of homelessness, but allowing this to occurr is not the answer.
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So is this on the south side of the jetty? There is also a sailboat washed up on the north side of the Coronado airport in the bay that’s been there for some time.
What really annoys me is that these bad apples ruin it for the rest of us. I’d love to be able to anchor around in Glorietta bay just outside of the designated anchorage for a weekend on the boat but you can’t anchor anywhere, including South Bay, in the harbor outside of the two anchorages and not without a permit which are always taken by those you described above. For many, it’s hard to plan ahead and try to get a permit when you want to use your boat spontaneously. Further, this just encourages people getting them without ever using them, thus, exacerbating the whole issue.
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31-10-2024, 02:42
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#12
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 51,033
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Re: Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdpaddler50
I would respectfully suggest that you avoid using the word "woke" on the forum...
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I agree.
The term “woke” was, originally, a [primarily] black contraction of the word “awake” [synonym for aware], to mean informed, educated and conscious of social injustice, and racial inequality, etc”, as used by ‘Leadbelly’ [Huddie Ledbetter], in his 1930s recording, of the protest song "Scottsboro Boys", or perhaps, a song recorded a decade earlier, "Sawmill Moan", by the blues artist Willard "Ramblin'" Thomas.
It gained prominence, in the wider public discourse, during the rise of the ‘Black Lives Matter’ movement.
The term has since been co-opted, by some radical, far right conservatives, as a pejorative term of abuse, to discredit policies*, and castigate politicians [& others], they consider too radically progressive. It’s become a catchall, to criticize anything on the progressive side of the political spectrum, they don't like.
The term 'woke' has become so thoroughly mis-appropriated, that even liberal progressives hesitate, to use it, in a nuanced conversation.
However, conservatives continue to use it, to galvanize the conservative base, around culture war issues.
* Florida’s governor, Ron DeSantis, for example, recently signed a so-called ‘Stop WOKE Act’ into law, and made the issue the centre of his midterm victory speech.
RON DESANTIS: “Now, this woke mind virus represents a war on merit, a war on...
... We will fight the woke in the legislature. We will fight the woke in education. We will fight the woke in the businesses. We will never, ever surrender to the woke mob. Our state is where woke goes to die...”
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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31-10-2024, 07:09
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#13
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Little Compton, RI
Boat: Cape George 31
Posts: 3,156
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Re: Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
I refer to them as "tarp-draped derelicts," since a ratty blue tarp is often a distinguishing feature.
I wish I could say that responsible cruisers can distinguish their boats from these derelicts by keeping their boat obviously clean, tidy, and looking well-cared for, but there are plenty of legitimate cruisers who simply don't have room to NOT store fenders and hanks of rope on the sternrail, plastic boxes and fuel jugs on deck, and whose cockpit enclosures are beautiful only from the inside on a rainy day.
Some of these, too, are an eyesore that brings down the class of an anchorage, but they're real cruisers doing real cruising with the means and the boat they have, and yet I feel that they draw the unfair negative attention of authorities, who don't mind seeing shiny, spiffy yachts, but choke at anything that's obviously being lived on.
Hope I didn't drift the thread too far--perhaps not, as the OP has already signed out.
__________________
Ben
zartmancruising.com
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01-11-2024, 11:12
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Morgan 382
Posts: 3,462
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Re: Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L
Supply and demand. It's been like that forever there. The slip fees are actually less than what I pay in Channel Islands harbor. I had a 24' boat in a slip there from'79 to '88. The 25' slip cost me $5k at the time as I recall. A lot of wealthy folks have moved to Santa Barbara over the years, and it's kind of a small harbor compared to others in SoCal. The harbor is city owned, if it were privately owned I'm sure the waiting list would be a mile long and slip fees would be triple probably. The city gets their share now, they charge a pretty steep transfer fee now too. Pretty good investment though if you can afford one! An old, non sailing Cal 28 with a 28 foot slip was asking $75,000. Don't know if they got it yet though.
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But that's the thing. That person isn't selling a cal 28 for $75,000. He is selling a slip, which he doesn't actually own, but is renting. Its a bribe. Consider someone renting a home in an area with no availability. They decide they don't want to live there anymore. Instead of moving, they take out an ad in a newspaper that says "Give me $75,000 and I will move out of my house so you can rent it." That is absolute BS.
Another common practice that I learned happens (and even has brokers to arrange) is that an owner of a vacant slip will sublease it. Which is technically not allowed, but the brokers make it happen by adding the slip holders name to the title of the boat going into the slip. Along with a contract describing the true ownership of the boat in case that comes into question later. That leads to slip prices that are actually much higher than what the marina publishes. If a permit holder doesn't have a boat, then the city needs to cancel the permit and make it available to someone on the waitlist, not enable brokers to collect money by arranging these unscrupulous deals.
__________________
-Warren
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01-11-2024, 11:56
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#15
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 14,960
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Re: Transient Sailboats in So-Cal
Oh I am not defending it, I think it is one result of low supply and high demand. And you’re right, no one pays $75000 for a cal 28. Once it sells I’m sure it will end up out in the anchorage, for sale, or it might get scrapped before that.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
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