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Old 15-04-2015, 06:17   #16
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Re: Too Much Chain

In the PNW if you can find a spot to anchor in 30 feet of water with a good bottom, you will be close to shore. Typically you will be too close to shore for more than 3:1 scope. We all know that is marginal.....so that drives you into deeper water. The math requires atleast 300 feet of rode. Does it all need to be chain? Perhaps not. Different locations require different solutions. Different bottoms require different ground tackle.
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Old 15-04-2015, 06:27   #17
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Re: Too Much Chain

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
...........Those that say they would just dive on the anchor ..................... .
Yes, I see that a lot on this forum. I suppose that divers think that everyone else is a diver and carries dive equipment on their boats. I don't believe that is the case and I don't believe those posters have their thinking caps on.

Most of us would have to locate and hire a diver. If you're talking about an expensive anchor and chain and you're in no danger where you are and not in a hurry to leave, that may be an option. Otherwise, it's Plan B.
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Old 15-04-2015, 08:26   #18
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Re: Too Much Chain

Sailorboy, I sail on the US West Coast and need all 300 ft of chain. But I understand, it is a lot of weight in the bow. If I was sailing on the East Coast and Caribbean I would be tempted to do as you originally posted and split the chain backed up with good rope rode. As you said you could move half the chain weight amidships and if you ever need to anchor in deeper water or conditions that require all chain you could join the two parts. It all makes sense IF you can join the chain without creating a weak link. What are your thoughts about joining the chain sections?


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Old 15-04-2015, 08:57   #19
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Re: Too Much Chain

Good feedback on how difficult a hacksaw would be to use under anything but ideal conditions. I've had a decent pair of bolt cutters on the list for the boat but this makes me realize the number of situations where they'd be beneficial is larger than I'd initially considered. My concern here is getting a set that's large enough to handle good quality chain. So for those that carry bolt cutters, have you verified they're large enough to handle your anchor chain? Also, how do you keep them usable and not a rusted mess? Just oil and bag the cutting jaws?

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Old 15-04-2015, 09:36   #20
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Re: Too Much Chain

It certainly depends on where you sail. Here's a friend of mine's perspective on his trip from Vancouver to Mexico:

The Rocna. All 20kg of it with 100ft of chain. The rest of the world can debate all they like. When I pull into a place like Bodega Bay at midnight and the fog is so thick I can't see the jetty 50 feet away to make an entrance, I drop my hook in the rolling ocean swells with the surf crashing (Foster says it's like staying in a cheap Best Western beside the highway), and I sleep. And in the morning I have a windlass to pull the beast up and I wouldn't trade it for anything. (I also wouldn't add more chain - this works perfectly in 25 to 30 feet of water - you let all the chain out and you tie off nylon at the preferred scope and don't bother with snubbers and chain hooks and all that stuff...)

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Old 16-04-2015, 00:50   #21
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Re: Too Much Chain

Besides normal anchoring, an anchor is a safety item. One day, in poor conditions, you may need to stop vessel movement in deeper water than a normal anchorage. The longer the rode, the better your anchor digs in and stays dug in. The book says 4:1 with chain and 7:1 in cable. When the book was written they were talking about the old heavy anchor cable before the use of chain was wide spread. I usually do 5 or 6:1 in chain. More if in a current or wind. I've never lost an anchor, but I plan where I anchor partially on bottom conditions. I sometimes anchor where there are 45 foot tides.
If you carry a steel ring that your chain and anchor shank will pass thru... With a snagged anchor, pass the chain thru the ring, buoy the chain, tie a heavy line to the ring and steaming in the direction of the anchor, the ring will travel down the line to the flukes and you should be able to pull it out. I've seen it done.
Anchor chain in a chain locker is good ballast.
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Old 16-04-2015, 01:10   #22
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Re: Too Much Chain

Weight in the bow is very harmful to sailing performance.

By now you should now whether you really need all the chain or not. Do you need to put it all out on a regular basis?

Even if you need that much scope, you can replace part of the chain with rope rode.

I have 100 meters of 12mm chain which weight 330kg or more than 700 pounds. Since I sail in tidal water (range of tide in the Channel reaches nearly 50 feet in some places), I really do need all the scope from time to time. However, I am tired of the extra water over the bow, and I'm looking for better upwind performance, so I'm chopping off 40 meters of it soon.

YMMV.
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Old 16-04-2015, 05:21   #23
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Re: Too Much Chain

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Weight in the bow is very harmful to sailing performance.

By now you should now whether you really need all the chain or not. Do you need to put it all out on a regular basis?

.
I'm had all that chain in the bow along with an oversized anchor for a couple of years now and haven't noticed any difference sailing from the weight. I don't think a 43' boat cares all the much about an extra 200 lbs.

I got all the chain originally to have enough total rode for a 5:1 at 1 anchorage. I considered less chain but didn't want to have to deal with rope/chain transition at the windlass while the boat was short scoped and bouncing so finally just decided to get the all chain.
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Old 17-04-2015, 06:06   #24
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Re: Too Much Chain

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I'm had all that chain in the bow along with an oversized anchor for a couple of years now and haven't noticed any difference sailing from the weight. I don't think a 43' boat cares all the much about an extra 200 lbs.

I got all the chain originally to have enough total rode for a 5:1 at 1 anchorage. I considered less chain but didn't want to have to deal with rope/chain transition at the windlass while the boat was short scoped and bouncing so finally just decided to get the all chain.
All chain has a big advantage with regard to chafe. You have to be really careful anchored in storm conditions on rope rode.

But 200 pounds extra in the bow probably does affect sailing performance somewhat. You might not care if, like 90% of cruisers, you don't do a lot of hard sailing upwind, because it's windward performance which will suffer.

The other bad thing is it keeps your bow from rising with the seas, and so will make your deck wetter. This is really noticeable on my boat, and ridiculous considering I have about 2 meters of freeboard at the bow.

It's a tradeoff with no easy answer, since more chain is really good when you're anchoring.

Another thing to consider is that you need less scope in deeper water. Read the Rocna knowledge guide and other sources about this. I think 3:1 is ok in 15 meters of water and good bottom, in not stormy conditions, equivalent to something like 5:1 in 5 meters of water.
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Old 17-04-2015, 07:42   #25
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Re: Too Much Chain

We have 330' (100m) and have used it all on many occasions in the Pacific. We usually try to anchor in 60' or less, as this gives us 5:1 scope, but were often unable to find these depths in the Philippines, Alaska and BC.

Concerning cutting chain, something like this is hard to beat and can be taken to the mast head as well:

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Old 17-04-2015, 07:49   #26
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Re: Too Much Chain

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Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
We have 330' (100m) and have used it all on many occasions in the Pacific. We usually try to anchor in 60' or less, as this gives us 5:1 scope, but were often unable to find these depths in the Philippines, Alaska and BC.

Concerning cutting chain, something like this is hard to beat and can be taken to the mast head as well:

You don't need 5:1 in more than 60' of water, unless you are anchoring in a typhoon.


That angle grinder could be just the ticket for cutting away rigging, too, for the case, God forbid, of a dismasting. Will it keep running if it gets drenched with seawater?
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Old 17-04-2015, 07:50   #27
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Re: Too Much Chain

OK, I'll state the obvious... Keep the chain, someday you might need it.
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Old 17-04-2015, 08:00   #28
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Re: Too Much Chain

The only problem in a light small boat like a Hunter 41 is excess of weight at the bow. It also depends on the chain thickness. Having too much weight ahead is not only bad for sailing performance but also for boat safety in stormy conditions. A shorter chain and a strong synthetic rope as rode is a better solution.

Regarding having a big rode on anchorage that's good for safety but it can give you some headaches if you don't see the bottom. Last year I had to dive (apnea)on two occasions to free the chain, one because it come tangle on big boulders and rocks another time because it got tangle over a sunken steel yacht ( I had the two masts, steel ones, hard tangle on the chain).
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Old 17-04-2015, 08:07   #29
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Re: Too Much Chain

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I have all chain, 350'...
I worry sometimes that if the anchor gets hung up and I have to leave it that all that extra chain was just lost money on the sea bottom. So I'm thinking of cutting my chain in half...
Instead of worrying about losing your chain, try worrying about your boat going on the beach. Cutting 175' of chain off won't help you.
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Old 17-04-2015, 08:19   #30
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Re: Too Much Chain

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I have used all the chain a few times.

Those that say they would just dive on the anchor I would like to see that since the water here is 40-45 degrees and I'm normally anchored in 20+ feet of water that you can not see though.
First, I assume you'll be heading south when you move onto the boat, so the water won't be 40-45 degrees.

Get a mask,fins, wetsuit and weight belt and learn to dive on your anchor. Or better yet, take a scuba course which will come in very handy someday. My scuba ability has already saved me more money than the cost of the course and equipment. You'll only need to stay down for a very short time, just long enough to hook a line onto the backside or hoop on your anchor. Then you can pull it out backwards.

I took the PADI course because I was tired of hiring divers at high prices, and now I've discovered that I really enjoy scuba.

Eventually, you will snag something on the bottom.
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