Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-05-2009, 19:11   #46
...

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Currently NZ
Boat: Buizen 48
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith' View Post
William, your profile lists your occupation as;



Do I understand your post to say that you have discussed some kind of professional relationship with Rocna?
LOL, LOL, LOL

May I suggest you re-read my post to which you refer ... and this time for its actual content?
BlueSovereign is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2009, 19:15   #47
...

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Currently NZ
Boat: Buizen 48
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
You ceartainly are unpleasant. Final answer
Considering the source (who has never met me, spoken with me, nor had any direct dealings with me): "Thanks for the compliment"
BlueSovereign is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2009, 19:48   #48
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,845
OK, folks, before this gets blown any further off course, please take a few deep breaths, keep your posts on the topic of the thread and play nicely. Thank you.

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2009, 19:48   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Seattle
Boat: Wauquiez Centurion 49
Posts: 771
Images: 13
Caveat emptor. If you like Chinese product, then buy it. Manson is a modified copy of the Rocna.

And no, I do not work for anyone, I am retired.

Additionally, I just got home from a three week cruise on a friends boat in Mexico. He had a 60lb Manson. I own a Rocna. For the conditions we saw, any anchor would have worked.
CAELESTIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2009, 19:58   #50
...

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Currently NZ
Boat: Buizen 48
Posts: 279
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoJones View Post
OK, folks, before this gets blown any further off course, please take a few deep breaths, keep your posts on the topic of the thread and play nicely. Thank you.TaoJones
No worries Capt'n

BTW, really like your quote!
BlueSovereign is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2009, 20:33   #51
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Back to Extemporaneous' question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extemporaneous View Post
I'm looking at getting a Rocna for my Corbin 39 and am waffling between a 25kg and a 33kg. My boat will be about 25,000 lbs. loaded.
My boat is 26,000 empty, with high freeboard. I went with the 25kg and do not regret it. Today I dropped it as a lunch hook in silt in Paradise Cay, with only 4 to 1 scope (all chain) without setting the hook. Five hours later we were looking at gusts of 31 knots. I purposely didn't increase scope because I could afford to drag for a few miles and I wanted to see how the anchor would hold. (I've only had it since November, and it still hasn't had a really good test despite being used throughout the winter.)

When we finally pulled the anchor it didn't break loose until it was right at 1 to 1 scope. (With the wind still blowing over 30 knots.)

As an aside, mine was made in Canada, but arrived with a bent bail. I may have done better with a made in China model. My Canadian Rocna works great but looks like something that really doesn't belong on a proper yacht.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2009, 21:53   #52
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dawson Creek, BC
Boat: Any time now!
Posts: 123
I am not in a position to buy any anchor, but a search on here for 'Rocna' yields a lot of posts by Craig Smith who has REALLY turned me off the Rocna anchors when I buy a boat.

Even if the Manson Supreme is a copy (which did not seem to be a sure thing) I don't care. I have first hand knowledge now of how the Rocna people conduct themselves in the face of criticism etc and that just isn't how you treat potential customers.

The choice really is

Manson:
Pros vs Rocna:
- Friendly people on the phone
-Good reports of fit and finish
-Equal holding to the Rocna, which by all accounts for both anchors is essentially the best you can buy.
-Cheaper than the Rocna as well, by a good deal.

Cons-May be a knock off of Rocna

Rocna pros vs Manson:
-Is not a knock off of the Manson (but uses essentially identical design to other anchors, like the spade)

Cons:
-Made in China now MAY be a con to some (though I dont have the same bias against China on principle. I have seen a lot of chinese junk, but a lot of high quality items as well. This goes for american junk and quality too. Lots of both.)
-Very abusive and confrontational reps, on this board and by reports in other places. The height of unprofessionalism.
-Quite a bit more expensive than the Manson.

For me at least this points clearly at the Manson as the anchor to get (Although I feel a bit bad for the spade people as they came up with the whole sharp scoup shaped anchor, and now they seem to have fallen off the map in terms of which scoup type anchor to get..I will have to do more reasearch).

If Rocna had been a bit more professional in the beginning they would certainly have more cruisersforums customers than they do now, as the tone towards them was essentially disgust at their conduct. It has faded a bit now, but any "Rocna" search turns it up immediatly.
__________________
~^~ ^~^ /|\ ~^~ ^~
~^~ ^~ (_|_\ ~^~^~
~^~^~ \====/ ~^ ~
anathema is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2009, 22:41   #53
...

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Currently NZ
Boat: Buizen 48
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by anathema View Post
I am not in a position to buy any anchor, but a search on here for 'Rocna' yields a lot of posts by Craig Smith who has REALLY turned me off the Rocna anchors when I buy a boat.

Even if the Manson Supreme is a copy (which did not seem to be a sure thing) I don't care. I have first hand knowledge now of how the Rocna people conduct themselves in the face of criticism etc and that just isn't how you treat potential customers.

The choice really is

Manson:
Pros vs Rocna:
- Friendly people on the phone
-Good reports of fit and finish
-Equal holding to the Rocna, which by all accounts for both anchors is essentially the best you can buy.
-Cheaper than the Rocna as well, by a good deal.

Cons-May be a knock off of Rocna

Rocna pros vs Manson:
-Is not a knock off of the Manson (but uses essentially identical design to other anchors, like the spade)

Cons:
-Made in China now MAY be a con to some (though I dont have the same bias against China on principle. I have seen a lot of chinese junk, but a lot of high quality items as well. This goes for american junk and quality too. Lots of both.)
-Very abusive and confrontational reps, on this board and by reports in other places. The height of unprofessionalism.
-Quite a bit more expensive than the Manson.

For me at least this points clearly at the Manson as the anchor to get (Although I feel a bit bad for the spade people as they came up with the whole sharp scoup shaped anchor, and now they seem to have fallen off the map in terms of which scoup type anchor to get..I will have to do more reasearch).

If Rocna had been a bit more professional in the beginning they would certainly have more cruisersforums customers than they do now, as the tone towards them was essentially disgust at their conduct. It has faded a bit now, but any "Rocna" search turns it up immediatly.
As they say down here: "Well done mate", I think your pro vs. con analysis is an excellent one, EXCEPT for:

Your giving excessive weight to historical and subjective data associated with a particular individual who I might be forgiven for thinking (and I don't know him personally, this is a professional assessment) was "excessively passionate" in promoting his product. The reality of your assessment can be distilled down to this reality: That was then, this is NOW!

I suggest you distil the pertinent points I have attempted to objectively (a perspective rarely expressed on this forum) articulate in earlier posts:
  1. A past Rocna rep used inappropriate behaviour to promote his product's "competitive points of difference"
  2. A current Manson rep has used even more disparaging sales techniques only 3 days ago
  3. Rocna's own personnel here in NZ are so impressed with the product quality coming out of China, that it has required its manufacturing facility in Napier to "up its game" to the China product's standard
  4. As stated earlier: "You might like to know that Kiwi's tend to all be "as frugal as a Cruiser" when parting with their money. Yet as I understand it, and based on personal observation all over NZ's North Island, I see very few Manson Supremes on yachts or launches here, but many Rocnas. In other words, if nothing else Kiwis know what "works best"
  5. S/V Faith's disingenuous query to me in this thread aside:
  • I'm an American NOT a Kiwi (the latter as a culture I can find many faults with)
  • I have NO relationship, association with, or any other connection with Rocna
  • I don't give a rat's ass where something is made or who makes it. I'm a perfectionist and thus seek the best. This based on the cornerstone of my cruising philosophy and approach: "it's all about risk management"
  • I value the expertise (note I said "expertise" NOT "opinion") of BWCs more experienced and knowledgeable than myself
Bottom-line: I choose a Rocna!

Others are more than entitled to their opinion (which in reality is, at best, exactly that: "an opinion") and purchase accordingly.....

William
BlueSovereign is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2009, 23:10   #54
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 11,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by janders View Post
We got a boat show deal from West Marine on a 33kg(73lb) Rocna for our 22,000lb Caliber 40. We've set it exactly zero times since installing it on the bow so I can't contribute much feedback there. I can tell you that people in the marina point and laugh at the size of the anchor compared to the boat it's on.

Which is exactly the confirmation I was looking for that we got the right size.
Nope, it's just an indication that you're on the right way... upgrade to one size bigger and you can sleep through even the most horrible squalls out there! (we have a 80kg (176lb) anchor on a 55,000lb boat).

ciao!
Nick.
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2009, 23:41   #55
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dawson Creek, BC
Boat: Any time now!
Posts: 123
I do hear what you're saying Blue, but OK both companies can have reps be less than professional (though it was the tone, and not the claims made that turned me off, and as far as I remember, it was the designers son, and not just some rep at a boat show. He should know better.)

And I reiterate that I don't find the china issue to be a Con myself. I have seen a lot of American junk, and a lot of high quality American products. This is the same for china. Stuff will be made to a certain standard, and for the same money you can get a much higher standard in china due to the labour costs. I have nothing against Chinese made products.

So removing all these from the argument..the choices are...

A Manson, which may or may not be a copy of the Rocna..for cheaper than the Rocna..with the same or better fit and finish (according to posts on this board).

Or, a Rocna..which may or may not be a modified copy of a spade anchor..for more money?

I chose the same product for less money.
__________________
~^~ ^~^ /|\ ~^~ ^~
~^~ ^~ (_|_\ ~^~^~
~^~^~ \====/ ~^ ~
anathema is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2009, 00:44   #56
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 11,841
I am not so sure if they are the same product. Little differences in shape, angles and weight distribution can result in big differences in performance.

I don't know much about the Mason vs Rocna performance but have personally seen the differences in original Bruce vs it's knock-offs. They are so different that it makes no sense comparing them while they look... well, alike ;-)

cheers,
Nick.
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2009, 00:55   #57
...

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Currently NZ
Boat: Buizen 48
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by anathema View Post
I do hear what you're saying Blue, but OK both companies can have reps be less than professional (though it was the tone, and not the claims made that turned me off, and as far as I remember, it was the designers son, and not just some rep at a boat show. He should know better.)

And I reiterate that I don't find the china issue to be a Con myself. I have seen a lot of American junk, and a lot of high quality American products. This is the same for china. Stuff will be made to a certain standard, and for the same money you can get a much higher standard in china due to the labour costs. I have nothing against Chinese made products.

So removing all these from the argument..the choices are...

A Manson, which may or may not be a copy of the Rocna..for cheaper than the Rocna..with the same or better fit and finish (according to posts on this board).

Or, a Rocna..which may or may not be a modified copy of a spade anchor..for more money?

I chose the same product for less money.
I reiterate what I stated earlier: "you usually get what you pay for"

BTW, what is the price differential in the USA of a Rocna 40 (88lbs.) and the equivalent Manson Supreme (which I believe is 80 lbs.) ???

I know the price differential down here is minimal (~$US 75) ... unless you are a "nickel and dime" person ... which many Cruisers (like I suspect some posters on this thread) are.....
BlueSovereign is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2009, 04:42   #58
Registered User
 
markpj23's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Black Hills, SD
Boat: Now Boatless
Posts: 1,152
Images: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpj23 View Post
My intent is to share real-life experiences with the Rocna anchor in this thread. Please do NOT use this one to debate the merits / disadvantages of one anchor as compared to another, as there are numerous threads already debating that topic.
Thanks for trashing this thread. I have read all of this garbage in the numerous other threads and have to suffer through it again here.

It would be nice if we could get back to the topic.
__________________
Mark
markpj23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2009, 05:14   #59
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 30,780
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith' View Post
William,

You said;

Actually, that was one of the reasons I chose the Manson. There was a Rocna rep named Craig Smith who started off providing some helpful info on the Rocna... but his posts degraded over time. He spent quite a bit of time on Wiki modifying the anchor page to market his wares. I respect a salesman who believes in his product, but he (IMHO) went too far. One post (here or on another forum) was a reply to a cruiser implying he was irresponsible to trust his family to anything less then a Rocna. I understand that Rocna no longer employs Craig, but your quote applied to them much more then it did Manson.

WRT China, no I have not been there. I have had years of experience dealing with their 'quality control'. Harbor Freight Salvage is acceptable quality for some things.. not ground tackle on my boat.

I do not trust the shackles stamped 'China' and personally would rather not have an anchor made there. This is my opinion, based on my experience. I doubt I am alone, I doubt that many folks feel the words 'China' and 'quality' go together.

Having said all that, I wish you well with your choice of anchor. I am thankful that we have a free market and we can choose from a variety of products that compete on price and quality.

Fair Winds,

I think it is useless for us to get caught up in squabbles between Manson and Rocna. It's pretty obvious that both companies have been less than perfectly ethical in their behavior towards each other, and towards others. In that part of the law called "equity", we have something called the "clean hands doctrine". It means, basically, don't come running to me for special consideration, if your own hands are not clean.

So I will not be choosing an anchor based on whose reps are more obnoxious or who stole from whom (especially since, as has been pointed out, both stole from the designers of the Spade). I'm just going to choose whichever anchor is better for ME, and gives the best bang for the buck. Screw the rest of it.

I am presently leaning towards the Manson but that is based on the assumption that the performance is about equal to Rocna. I will be combing the web for information which may confirm or contradict that thesis. If it turns out that there is some evidence that Rocna has an performance edge over the Manson, then I will think twice. But performance is not the only consideration -- how about reliability? The Rocna appears (based on unscientific observations) to be somewhat rougher made than the Manson. "Rougher made" does not necessarily mean less reliable, but it could do so.

I suggest that we forget about the feud between the manufacturers and concentrate on understanding the products themselves.
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2009, 05:28   #60
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
Hud3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,942
Images: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpj23 View Post
Thanks for trashing this thread. I have read all of this garbage in the numerous other threads and have to suffer through it again here.

It would be nice if we could get back to the topic.
Guys! Please show the person who started this thread a little respect! Keep on topic.

If you want to debate anchor X versus anchor Y, or China versus Canada, you can start another thread of your own.

Thanks!!!
__________________
Hud
Hud3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rocna

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will be trying out a Rocna anchor rsn48 Anchoring & Mooring 162 04-04-2009 00:14
I need a Rocna noelex 77 Anchoring & Mooring 56 10-01-2009 19:27

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:25.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.