The Rocna Experience

[Ancora Latina]

Originally Posted by Extemporaneous

It has a bowsprit and I'm know sure how it will fit.

- How did you arrive at the 33kg vs 25kg? Extemp.

The Answer concerning your Bowsprit is included in the Rocna Knowledge base:

• The roll-bar on the Rocna can unfortunately represent a problem with certain roller designs, if the roll-bar should clash with a forward projection such as a bowsprit, or the underside of a platform.

Bowsprits

• This is an issue with some sailboats, if their anchor bow roller(s) are designed as part of the bowsprit arrangement. Many yachts with bowsprits incorporate a roller directly next to the 'sprit itself. A Rocna, with its roll-bar, cannot fit in such a location.

• How did you arrive at the 33kg vs. 25kg?

For a 39’/ 25,000 lbs we suggest the RAYA 1300 (18 kg) (U.S. $ 540, 00)
:http://www.ancoralatina.com/acolhimento/ingles/selection_of_the_model/size%20selection.html

Both the 25 and the 33kg will be oversized – Good for security, but check also that your windlass will be able to lift this additional weight??


João

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by muskoka

There seems to be a great deal of confusion about 'Made in China'.

The problems occur with the knock-offs made in China. They look like a brand name item but they're fabricated with lousy materials and no quality control. You'd have the same problems with pirated designs made anywhere.

On the other hand, if it's made OEM 'under license' it should be fine. The company will ensure the quality of materials and fabrication and that's really what you're paying a premium for.

I seem to recall Matel or some toy manufacture not only specified lead free paint on their toys they also supplied the paint. There was a test on the toys and the Chinese manufacture had used a different paint. Not saying that that couldn't happen in the West but it has happened in China on more than one occasion.

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by Ancora Latina

The Answer concerning your Bowsprit is included in the Rocna Knowledge base:

• The roll-bar on the Rocna can unfortunately represent a problem with certain roller designs, if the roll-bar should clash with a forward projection such as a bowsprit, or the underside of a platform.

Bowsprits

• This is an issue with some sailboats, if their anchor bow roller(s) are designed as part of the bowsprit arrangement. Many yachts with bowsprits incorporate a roller directly next to the 'sprit itself. A Rocna, with its roll-bar, cannot fit in such a location.

For a 39’/ 25,000 lbs we suggest the RAYA 1300 (18 kg) (U.S. $ 540, 00)
:http://www.ancoralatina.com/acolhimento/ingles/selection_of_the_model/size%20selection.html

Both the 25 and the 33kg will be oversized – Good for security, but check also that your windlass will be able to lift this additional weight??


João

Anny idea of shipping to California?

[s/v 'Faith']

Originally Posted by muskoka

There seems to be a great deal of confusion about 'Made in China'.

The problems occur with the knock-offs made in China. They look like a brand name item but they're fabricated with lousy materials and no quality control. You'd have the same problems with pirated designs made anywhere.

On the other hand, if it's made OEM 'under license' it should be fine. The company will ensure the quality of materials and fabrication and that's really what you're paying a premium for.

I would not call the Rocna a 'knock off' even if there is some doubt as to who actually came up with the roll bar concept.

I do question the fact that Rocna would still charge more then Manson, with what we know about Chinese mfg / quality control it makes no sense to me that people would pay more for a Rocna made in China, then a Manson Supreme made in NZ.

Now, I have made no secret of my satisfaction with the Manson Supreme, and would recommend it to anyone. I have no reason to believe that the Rocna is any less satisfactory... I would not recommend the brand though, given the higher price point and the question about WHERE the anchor on YOUR boat was made.

Just one Sailors opinion.

[Steve Pope]

I am using a 20kg Rocna on our 37' trismus probably around 8.5 tonne fully loaded for offshore cruising, It is by far the best anchor I have ever had, the only problem has been adapting to the speed it takes to set and that it strips the chain off the gypsy if you are backing up too fast!! I would consider a 15kg to be more than adequate were I ever to get another one.

[BlueSovereign]

Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'

I would not call the Rocna a 'knock off' even if there is some doubt as to who actually came up with the roll bar concept.

I do question the fact that Rocna would still charge more then Manson, with what we know about Chinese mfg / quality control it makes no sense to me that people would pay more for a Rocna made in China, then a Manson Supreme made in NZ.

Now, I have made no secret of my satisfaction with the Manson Supreme, and would recommend it to anyone. I have no reason to believe that the Rocna is any less satisfactory... I would not recommend the brand though, given the higher price point and the question about WHERE the anchor on YOUR boat was made.

Just one Sailors opinion.

So 'Faith' (and 'Celestial Sailor' and 'Charlie') permit me to ask:

1. What do you three know about Chinese mfg/quality control, other than what you derive from "sensational journalism"?
2. Have you (or Celestial Sailor or Charlie) ever been to China?
3. Have you (or Celestial Sailor or Charlie) ever personally dealt with any of their major export industry leaders?
4. Do the three of you always tend to use "all or nothing thinking" or just with Chinese products?

I've spent considerable time in China for business reasons (including Shanghai, Guangzhou, Beijing, Schenzen, and Ruili) and I can assure you, not all products made in China are "Mattel toys" (which BTW, is a very "simple" manufacturing process)

I was just speaking directly with Rocna last Friday to advise them of the disparaging methods (and inaccurate statements) your dearly beloved Manson was using at the Boat Show here last week to explain why in their opinion Rocna's are inferior. These included the following:

1. Rocna anchors are all now made in China
2. Rocna’s anchor base is now cast which compromises the weld between the base and its shank
3. Rocna could not obtain Lloyd's certification

All three above are not true!

• The new factory in Shanghai has been set-up and producing anchors (which currently go to Europe).
• It is producing product that has been thoroughly tested, and in fact matches or exceeds quality standards of those made in NZ.
• The plant is receiving ISO certification.
• Lloyds is not the only certifier on this planet, and there are very valid reasons why Rocna choose to be certified by a different highly reputable certifier.

Maybe you and others should ask yourselves why one manufacturer has a need to trash the competition's reputable product???

BTW, I note a number of posters have an interest in a Rocna 15. A highly respected yachtie here in NZ (and a poster to this Forum for quite some time) has been striving to get Rocna to make a stowable version. Consequently, Rocna will be soon releasing a "Stow-able Rocna 15 to test the market for such a product. I'm hoping it will be well-received as I will want a larger size to go with the Rocna 40 I will be purchasing shortly.

Why am I choosing a Rocna over a Manson Supreme?

You might like to know that Kiwi's tend to all be "as frugal as a Cruiser" when parting with their money. Yet as I understand it, and based on personal observation all over NZ's North Island, I see very few Manson Supremes on yachts or launches here, but many Rocnas. BTW, I would agree with Rocna's stated position: Manson Supreme is a very good anchor.

However, to sum up: all anchors of this type are created equal, however some are more equal than others. I believe the latter applies to Rocna (though I too would like to see a slightly more aesthetic finish to their final product).

William

[Dockhead]

I have nothing against Chinese factories; as someone said above it depends on who ordered the goods and what the quality standards were.

Furthermore, the big price premium of Rocna over Manson mentioned by someone does not seem to exist in the U.K.. The prices here are about the same.

NEVERTHELESS, I am leaning towards the Manson, which is noticeably better looking in terms of build quality and finish. Boy I wish I could afford a stainless one.

[BlueSovereign]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I have nothing against Chinese factories; as someone said above it depends on who ordered the goods and what the quality standards were.

Furthermore, the big price premium of Rocna over Manson mentioned by someone does not seem to exist in the U.K.. The prices here are about the same.

NEVERTHELESS, I am leaning towards the Manson, which is noticeably better looking in terms of build quality and finish. Boy I wish I could afford a stainless one.

Wouldn't we all, Manson or Rocna!

[Ancora Latina]

Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'

I would not call the Rocna a 'KNOCK OFF' even if there is some doubt as to who actually came up with the roll bar concept.
.

- No doubt at all – This concept has been developed by Peter Bruce – U.S. patent n° 3777695 – dec 11 1973.

- The shank design has been slightly modified from the Delta anchor:




- and the blade is a blatant copy of the one of the Spade anchor

( not talking about the RRR = copy of the Manson Supreme or the Stow-able Rocna = copy of the Ancora Latina « Tempest »)

João NODARI

[s/v 'Faith']

William,

You said;

Maybe you and others should ask yourselves why one manufacturer has a need to trash the competition's reputable product???

Actually, that was one of the reasons I chose the Manson. There was a Rocna rep named Craig Smith who started off providing some helpful info on the Rocna... but his posts degraded over time. He spent quite a bit of time on Wiki modifying the anchor page to market his wares. I respect a salesman who believes in his product, but he (IMHO) went too far. One post (here or on another forum) was a reply to a cruiser implying he was irresponsible to trust his family to anything less then a Rocna. I understand that Rocna no longer employs Craig, but your quote applied to them much more then it did Manson.

WRT China, no I have not been there. I have had years of experience dealing with their 'quality control'. Harbor Freight Salvage is acceptable quality for some things.. not ground tackle on my boat.

I do not trust the shackles stamped 'China' and personally would rather not have an anchor made there. This is my opinion, based on my experience. I doubt I am alone, I doubt that many folks feel the words 'China' and 'quality' go together.

Having said all that, I wish you well with your choice of anchor. I am thankful that we have a free market and we can choose from a variety of products that compete on price and quality.

Fair Winds,

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by BlueSovereign

So 'Faith' (and 'Celestial Sailor' and 'Charlie') permit me to ask:

1. What do you three know about Chinese mfg/quality control, other than what you derive from "sensational journalism"?
2. Have you (or Celestial Sailor or Charlie) ever been to China?
3. Have you (or Celestial Sailor or Charlie) ever personally dealt with any of their major export industry leaders?
4. Do the three of you always tend to use "all or nothing thinking" or just with Chinese products?

I've spent considerable time in China for business reasons (including Shanghai, Guangzhou, Beijing, Schenzen, and Ruili) and I can assure you, not all products made in China are "Mattel toys" (which BTW, is a very "simple" manufacturing process)



I was just speaking directly with Rocna last Friday to advise them of the disparaging methods (and inaccurate statements) your dearly beloved Manson was using at the Boat Show here last week to explain why in their opinion Rocna's are inferior. These included the following:

1. Rocna anchors are all now made in China
2. Rocna’s anchor base is now cast which compromises the weld between the base and its shank
3. Rocna could not obtain Lloyd's certification

All three above are not true!

• The new factory in Shanghai has been set-up and producing anchors (which currently go to Europe).
• It is producing product that has been thoroughly tested, and in fact matches or exceeds quality standards of those made in NZ.
• The plant is receiving ISO certification.
• Lloyds is not the only certifier on this planet, and there are very valid reasons why Rocna choose to be certified by a different highly reputable certifier.

Maybe you and others should ask yourselves why one manufacturer has a need to trash the competition's reputable product???

BTW, I note a number of posters have an interest in a Rocna 15. A highly respected yachtie here in NZ (and a poster to this Forum for quite some time) has been striving to get Rocna to make a stowable version. Consequently, Rocna will be soon releasing a "Stow-able Rocna 15 to test the market for such a product. I'm hoping it will be well-received as I will want a larger size to go with the Rocna 40 I will be purchasing shortly.

Why am I choosing a Rocna over a Manson Supreme?

You might like to know that Kiwi's tend to all be "as frugal as a Cruiser" when parting with their money. Yet as I understand it, and based on personal observation all over NZ's North Island, I see very few Manson Supremes on yachts or launches here, but many Rocnas. BTW, I would agree with Rocna's stated position: Manson Supreme is a very good anchor.

However, to sum up: all anchors of this type are created equal, however some are more equal than others. I believe the latter applies to Rocna (though I too would like to see a slightly more aesthetic finish to their final product).

William

Yeah I guess all the crap tools that break on the second or third use is just sensationlist journalisim. I can count five times where that problem has occured. The animals that died b/c of the tainted dog food. The children who were sick and/or died b/c chemicals were added to milk. I avoid chinese products when possible I would prefer something from NZ, Europe, USA, or Japan. I'm sure all your experience looks great on paper but when you have a wrench that breaks in your hand, or a torque wrench that doesn't record the correct torque right out of the box and you snap a bolt b/c orf that, a set of knives that won't hold an edge, a hammer that lost its face after less than a month sitting in my tool box next to a hammer built in the USA that is 20 years old and still has a solid face, or a set of drift punches that bend when you hit them solidly in the correct spot. Other than the tainted food products there is no jounalisim there.

I hope you rack up some frq flyer miles but China has a long way to go before their products are considered to have good quality control. I think the US needs to refuse shipment on some of the crap they send over. That would make them think twice.

And as far as anchors go. Why take the chance? That anchor may be the only thing that stands between your boat and a lee shore. The chinese products that I have had personal encounters with are cheap and inexpensive. Japan had a quality problem and they fixed it. China probably will fix theirs but they certainly aren't doing it now.

[BlueSovereign]

Originally Posted by Charlie

The chinese products that I have had personal encounters with are cheap and inexpensive. Japan had a quality problem and they fixed it. China probably will fix theirs but they certainly aren't doing it now.

As the cliche goes: "you get what you pay for" ...... it would appear based on your post, you prefer to go "cheap and inexpensive"

As to your last sentence: thanks for clearly providing an answer to my question #4 .....

[s/v 'Faith']

Originally Posted by BlueSovereign

......

I was just speaking directly with Rocna last Friday to advise them of the disparaging methods (and inaccurate statements) your dearly beloved Manson was using at the Boat Show here last week......

William

William, your profile lists your occupation as;

OccupationBusiness & Management Consultant, Executive/Life Coach

Do I understand your post to say that you have discussed some kind of professional relationship with Rocna?

[BlueSovereign]

Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'

I understand that Rocna no longer employs Craig, but your quote applied to them much more then it did Manson.

I doubt that many folks feel the words 'China' and 'quality' go together.,

Your comments regarding Craig (who I understand teneded to generate a lot of heat on Forums) are associated with "dated" events .... Manson's rep's actions were just 3 days ago!

That aside, with your last sentence above, thanks for clearly providing an answer to my question #4 ......
I agree with what you confirmed: "many folks" tend to think in "all or nothing" terms ..... how unfortunate for them

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by BlueSovereign

As the cliche goes: "you get what you pay for" ...... it would appear based on your post, you prefer to go "cheap and inexpensive"

As to your last sentence: thanks for clearly providing an answer to my question #4 .....

You ceartainly are unpleasant. Final answer