The Rocna Experience

[YOGAO]

Originally Posted by sabray

I just had a new roof installed at home. It works great I love it no water inside. Found out it's made of burlap instead of asphalt. Same design just slightly different material. Love it wouldn't have any other roof.

Thanks for helping me decide to unsubscribe from this thread.

[sabray]

Testy ehh if you buy something it should made of what the seller says it is. No less. Saying something works fine is okay. When I buy sunbrella I expect it to be subrelka with all it's uv protection. It might work well keeping the sun off if it's made of cotton. But I bought sunbrella. Any way sorry if I pissed you off. I use an old pos Bruce that everyone says is crap. I know it works and has for years when I can I'll buy a newer design. I'd be pretty pissedif I bought a rocna and found out it's not the same grade that was advertised.

[Extemporaneous]

Originally Posted by sabray

I just had a new roof installed at home. It works great I love it no water inside. Found out it's made of burlap instead of asphalt. Same design just slightly different material. Love it wouldn't have any other roof.

It kind of sounds like you're okay with it as long as "the product" performs??

Originally Posted by sabray

Testy ehh if you buy something it should made of what the seller says it is. No less. Saying something works fine is okay. When I buy sunbrella I expect it to be subrelka with all it's uv protection. It might work well keeping the sun off if it's made of cotton. But I bought sunbrella. Any way sorry if I pissed you off. I use an old pos Bruce that everyone says is crap. I know it works and has for years when I can I'll buy a newer design. I'd be pretty pissedif I bought a rocna and found out it's not the same grade that was advertised.

But in your next post it sounds like you taking the opposite position??

Anyway..... to me it's about DECEIT!! And clearly that is what this is, plain and simple.
And if their argument is that "it" performs as specified.... It may very well but it's still DECEIT!!

And Companies that take these sorts of Liberties deserve to PAY!

Extemp.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Extemporaneous

I have a ROCNA and would like to say I would Never buy another one because of this, but I'll stop short of this because I'm not sure which is the next Company (Anchor in this case) to Bold Face Lie!!.

I agree. I'm not sure what I would buy today. Rocna is not credible anymore, Manson has questionable IP practices, Raya is gone, and Spade doesn't seem to be available in the US at reasonable prices anymore. As WM stated, it's a bummer.

[YOGAO]

It just never ceases to amaze me how people use distortions, innuendoes, misdirections and lies to make their point and take unnecessary potshots.

There are gobs (technical term, btw) of products sold that come with a disclaimer along the lines of, "pricing and specifications may change at any time without notice." (Rocna does NOT say this, btw)

In this particular case, the retailer has said they will refund/exchange the product if the end user is unhappy. The manufacturer, while hiding behind corporate-speak, has nevertheless reiterated that their product meets and exceeds the RINA standards for performance, and has provided data beyond the corporate-speak to back that up.

So the end-result facts are:

• There is NOT a recall
• The product meets RINA standards
• The retailer and manufacturer have apologized for their actions (or lack thereof)
• They are backing it with a money-back, no questions asked policy

Glad you are happy with your Bruce, hope it always works and you can use your new anchor money for something more enjoyable/better for mankind/beer.

[sabray]

So your offended by s comparison. I like the design of rocna but... I'm not offended by people who suggest my Bruce is a pos. I know exactly what I bought.if you buy a roof with s 10 year warranty it should be 10 years not 9. It's okay if you trash all other anchors except the one you bought. I have a fortress I know that anchor is light holds like a beast and I night bend the stock.I know exactly what that anchor will do. My old cqr held rel well in some bottoms so well I bent the stock in a vertical pull not sideways . It was a very good anchor and I knew that when it was set I had good gear in the ground. My snatch blocks have a working load of 1900 lbs. The pins are 316 stainless I know this because that's what the manufacturer said. If they are something else I would be ticked off.so you own a rocna best anchor made.

[Extemporaneous]

Originally Posted by YOGAO

It just never ceases to amaze me how people use distortions, innuendoes, misdirections and lies to make their point and take unnecessary potshots.

Never?
Being bothered by someone LYING is a "potshot"?

Originally Posted by YOGAO

There are gobs (technical term, btw) of products sold that come with a disclaimer along the lines of, "pricing and specifications may change at any time without notice." (Rocna does NOT say this, btw)

In this particular case, the retailer has said they will refund/exchange the product if the end user is unhappy. The manufacturer, while hiding behind corporate-speak, has nevertheless reiterated that their product meets and exceeds the RINA standards for performance, and has provided data beyond the corporate-speak to back that up.

I'm not sure of your point.... but their are lots of folks that may be influenced by a technical specification. Oh ya...... and it's not like ROCNA fessed up (technical term) on their own. They were FORCE to by West Marine!

Originally Posted by YOGAO

So the end-result facts are:

• There is NOT a recall
• The product meets RINA standards
• The retailer and manufacturer have apologized for their actions (or lack thereof)
• They are backing it with a money-back, no questions asked policy

.

You forgot one.
THEY LIED!! and MISREPRESENTED!!
It never ceases to amaze me how many people have forgone some of the most basic fundamental principles in life and are willing to look past individual events ignoring the real problem, acceptability of LYING or being LIED to.

It IS this lack of holding others accountable that has put us exactly where we are and where we deserve to be I guess.

Cheers,
Extemp.

[Kettlewell]

The inventor and designer of the anchor in question published on his Web site that the strength of the material was critical to meet the design characteristics, and yet after he sold the company the strength of the material used was changed while the statement still remained on the site. And, now the company says the strength of the material is adequate. It would be interesting to hear the opinion of the original designer, but I suspect he may be prevented from speaking due to a contract.

[sabray]

Originally Posted by YOGAO

It just never ceases to amaze me how people use distortions, innuendoes, misdirections and lies to make their point and take unnecessary potshots.

There are gobs (technical term, btw) of products sold that come with a disclaimer along the lines of, "pricing and specifications may change at any time without notice." (Rocna does NOT say this, btw)

In this particular case, the retailer has said they will refund/exchange the product if the end user is unhappy. The manufacturer, while hiding behind corporate-speak, has nevertheless reiterated that their product meets and exceeds the RINA standards for performance, and has provided data beyond the corporate-speak to back that up.

So the end-result facts are:

[*]There is NOT a recall[*]The product meets RINA standards[*]The retailer and manufacturer have apologized for their actions (or lack thereof)[*]They are backing it with a money-back, no questions asked policy


Glad you are happy with your Bruce, hope it always works and you can use your new anchor money for something more enjoyable/better for mankind/beer.

Could you clarify who you are calling a liar?

[avb3]

Originally Posted by sabray

Could you clarify who you are calling a liar?

I'm pretty sure he is referring to the manufacturer. After all, they did lie, got caught, and doing the worst attempt at PR one has ever seen.

Not only will they get a bunch of anchors back, but the vast majority of people aware of the situation will never buy one, even if the specs went back to normal.

Now, if a credible company were to buy this POS manufacturer who is so economical with the truth, and ensure original specs, that may be a salvation.

Too bad, as the design is good, but the ethics aren't.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by sabray

I just had a new roof installed at home. It works great I love it no water inside. Found out it's made of burlap instead of asphalt. Same design just slightly different material. Love it wouldn't have any other roof.

You make roofs out of roads? wow?

[sabray]

Many US homes use asphalt shingles and modified bit roofs are very common. The point was if I bought something that was made to a specification it nerds to meet the specification. To say that it works is not good enough.it needs to meet the specification. Maybe I build a school that wants abuse resistant drywall. I bid as if it's the spec.but I build using regular drywall. Maybe the school is happy.the walls work. If your happy paying for things that work but are less then what you paid for then argue away.a burke roof will work if you bought a asphalt shingle roof you should have that. If I buy 316 stainless anchor it should be 316. Where is the dead horse paddle thing. I'm happy with my rocna even though I paid for quality steel and it's not what I got. Great how would you like 20 pounds if propane in a 10 lb bottle. It's almost the same.

[olaf hart]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I agree. I'm not sure what I would buy today. Rocna is not credible anymore, Manson has questionable IP practices, Raya is gone, and Spade doesn't seem to be available in the US at reasonable prices anymore. As WM stated, it's a bummer.

I wouldn't say Manson had intellectual property problems. If you follow the threads it is clear that they developed the Supreme independently from Rocna.
The only people who questioned them were the Rocna, and their credibility is now in tatters.

[Extemporaneous]

Originally Posted by avb3

I'm pretty sure he is referring to the manufacturer.

If you're right, I may owe YOGAO an apology.
But..... unfortunately I don't think you are.

That said perhaps YOGAO can clarify.

Cheers,
Extemp.

[Intentional Drifter]

I love my 2007 Canadian-made Rocna. We just returned from 3 weeks in Desolation Sound, where the anchoring can be difficult at times, with the water depths such that an ideal scope is sometimes just not possible, the tidal ranges are large, and the currents can be fast. I never had a concern. The Rocna set great, first time, every time. No issues at all.

However, I am always concerned when a company makes what apparently looks like significant changes to something and don't explain it up front. Makes me suspicious, at the least.

Of course, with all the hype about anchors in general, I think it pays to be cautious about all of them.

ID