The Rocna Experience

[schoonerdog]

Yeah, but in the US, or Canada, or Britain, or Australia, Spain, etc. you literally aren't thrown in jail as a safety inspector for finding a safety issue. You also aren't thrown in jail for carrying a non official magazine. Your not thrown in jail for making the wrong search in google. And typically we don't have 10 year olds working in coal mines. My point is that in China according to the NY times artical there really IS no quality control. Yes, they have the equipment, but they can't even tell which of their own suppliers has decided to substitute in one type of product for another. And yes we have different standards, but there's a pretty big difference between that and a industrial product for making flame retardant into milk. Our FDA inspectors don't go to jail if they find a bad batch of milk. So I guess that's my question to ROCNA. How can you trust your product is going to be made well in a country where there is no dissention to either the company or the government? I mean, this discourse we're having right now would be shut down there and you and I would loose our jobs and have a bit of reeducation. I couldn't even get my Chinese roommate at University to talk to me about anything he didn't like about his government because he "never could tell who was actually a part of the secret police". And it wasn't just him, it was all of the Chinese students. And they were sitting in the middle of an American campus. Were I ROCNA, I wouldn't be quite as willingly naive. If the people at the factory were too scared to actually say something is wrong with the product, then I wouldn't build a factory there.

[Shawn67]

Originally Posted by schoonerdog

So, back to basics I guess. I was going to get a Rocna, but now how can I really trust that the product was tested and made correctly. So, anyone make an anchor that hold about as well as a Rocna, but made in a country where they don't put government inspectors in jail for publicizing safety flaws?

I went with the Raya.

Shawn

[danielgoldberg]

Originally Posted by motion30

Manson supreme

From the info available and absent real-world experience with the products, which I don't have or have access to, it's very hard to tell whether there are differences in performance between the Rocna and the Manson Supreme. I suspect setting and holding power are very comparable, but who knows.

One specific question I have is whether one is better at self-launching than the other. Anyone know?

[SailFastTri]

I have a Manson Supreme 35lb for 4 years and a Rocna 20kg (44lbs) for 2 years. I seriously doubt there is much (if any) consistent difference in holding for equal size, although the Manson would definitely penetrate weeds better (much sharper and longer point). The Manson has better quality galvanizing, and the welds appear about the same on each.

They both self-launch about the same, with neither having an issue. The Manson has a higher hoop and higher (thicker in height) shank and longer tip, and the Rocna has a longer narrower shank. Because of those factors, the Rocna might be easier to mount, depending on your bow and roller layout -- and whether you have a sprit.

[barnakiel]

If Rocna makes their stuff in China - OK. But why do they still ask a price as if they made their stuff in a place where quality control, skills and work ethics are established, known and controlled?

Making an anchor in China is basically the cost of the material. So who gets the (suddenly multiplied) margin?

Unfroggin'believable!

b.

[Bash]

On my boat the Rocna does not self-launch, although the Delta it replaced did. The Rocna needs a good stiff kick to get serious about getting wet.

Of course, so do most of my crew.

[danielgoldberg]

Originally Posted by Bash

On my boat the Rocna does not self-launch, although the Delta it replaced did. The Rocna needs a good stiff kick to get serious about getting wet.

Yo!!! You're the first person I've heard say this at all. Do you have any pix of your setup?

[s/v Jedi]

I think it is very easy to state that items manufactures in China are bad. However, some of the finest quality electronics devices I have are manufactured in China and challenge the finest quality electronics devices from California I have.
There's another thread about Chinese sailmakers and when you read that and follow the links posted you will find that it is nonsense to state that Chinese manufacturing is low grade; your big western brand sails were probably manufactured in China too. I have had crap stuff from China and I have had crap stuff from the US or any other place.

cheers,
Nick.

[motion30]

I replaced mt 45# danforth with a 45* manson supreme My boat is a 34' trawler that weighs app 20,000lbs I am now in the fl keys and my first impressions are a little dissapointing The manson dragged on me in marathon, and I tossed my second anchor which is a self made 35lb danforth style , it seemed to hold better in the same bottom and certainly was much harder to retrieve I have launched the manson only a half dozen times so maybe my opinion will change But right now especially for the money I am not happy

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by motion30

I replaced mt 45# danforth with a 45* manson supreme My boat is a 34' trawler that weighs app 20,000lbs I am now in the fl keys and my first impressions are a little dissapointing The manson dragged on me in marathon, and I tossed my second anchor which is a self made 35lb danforth style , it seemed to hold better in the same bottom and certainly was much harder to retrieve I have launched the manson only a half dozen times so maybe my opinion will change But right now especially for the money I am not happy

Interesting data point. What type of bottom was it? (Loose sand? hard-pack?)

In my experience the Rocna/Manson Supreme advantage is greatest in difficult-to-penetrate bottoms (e.g. hard pack, grassy/weed) with good resetting ability if direction of pull changes. In loose sand or mud it's all about fluke area and angle of pull, so a Danforth-type can be very effective (but doesn't reset reliably).

Also noteworthy is the fact that the roll bar of the Rocna/Manson Supreme can act like a barrier preventing the anchor from burying deeper past a certain point, and tends to accumulate weed or a ball of thick mud. While it can penetrate hard bottoms and set where others can't -- a design like the steel Spade (or Raya, though I have no experience with it) might even develop greater ultimate holding power where penetration isn't a problem.

Spade/Delta and CQR have less penetration in difficult bottoms because of the triangular 3-D profile of the tip, which is flatter and sharper (nearly 2D) in the Rocna/Manson Supreme. The downsides and advantages of Danforth-types are well known and documented. I would not leave the boat or sleep well if lying on a single Danforth-type anchor, although if 2 are set Bahamian-style that's a different story.

Overall -- for an "all around" primary anchor that sets, resets, and holds well I think the Rocna/Manson Supreme or steel Spade are the best choices today, followed by Delta. Danforth-type anchors still have their place as auxiliary anchors. Note the Aluminum Spade is specifically excluded except as an auxilairy or secondary anchor, because it doesn't have enough weight for good penetration in hard or difficult bottoms (I used to own one).

[motion30]

The bottom in boot key seemed to be sand with a course grass The fluke anchor really bit into this and was very hard to disloge

[danielgoldberg]

Originally Posted by motion30

I replaced mt 45# danforth with a 45* manson supreme My boat is a 34' trawler that weighs app 20,000lbs I am now in the fl keys and my first impressions are a little dissapointing The manson dragged on me in marathon, and I tossed my second anchor which is a self made 35lb danforth style , it seemed to hold better in the same bottom and certainly was much harder to retrieve I have launched the manson only a half dozen times so maybe my opinion will change But right now especially for the money I am not happy

Powerboaters. Go figure.

[motion30]

Originally Posted by danielgoldberg

Powerboaters. Go figure.

Yea you have watch out for us, when the manson dragged I almost ran into a sail boat

[s/v Jedi]

Aluminium spade: it's also not strong enough. I saw a heap of them after a hurricane and they were all ripped apart, showing the hollow shank.

cheers,
Nick.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by danielgoldberg

Yo!!! You're the first person I've heard say this at all. Do you have any pix of your setup?

Sorry, no pix. I'm off the boat for a week--it's hauled out for a bottom job.

My anchor roller was built specifically for a Delta anchor, and it launched perfectly. Then we'd drag.

Part of the "problem" with the Rocna is that I've gone to a system where I attach 18" of heavy chain to a shackle, then I attach a stainless swivel, then the regular chain. The swivel is suspended over the chain locker, and when I unwind chain from the windlass it tends to want to fall into the locker while the anchor stands pat. This is easily remedied by a push with the boathook against the Rocna's bail.

I didn't use the same swivel setup on the Delta because, frankly, it wasn't needed. That anchor would pivot freely, while the Rocna tends to stay where it originally set, even after the boat has shifted 180 degrees with the tides. Once the swivel got locked in the 180 degree position and needed to be persuaded with a mallet to right itself. At that point I decided that the new setup would be less likely to bust a swivel.

I'll take pix once the boat is back in the water.