The Herding Instinct

[Talbot]

Whilst I am happy to conform to other people's anchoring in order to ensure swinging circles do not conflict, I will only do so up to the point that I consider it safe to do so.

As for a swell at a different angle to the boat. You do not have to use two anchors to deal with this, you can always use a different position for the bridle (e.g. one leg from the stern) and alter the lengths of one of the legs of the bridle in order to adjust the angle of the boat. This was used by the old wooden warships, and especially the mortar vessels to adjust bearing for shore bombardment.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Talbot

Whilst I am happy to conform to other people's anchoring in order to ensure swinging circles do not conflict, I will only do so up to the point that I consider it safe to do so.

As for a swell at a different angle to the boat. You do not have to use two anchors to deal with this, you can always use a different position for the bridle (e.g. one leg from the stern) and alter the lengths of one of the legs of the bridle in order to adjust the angle of the boat. This was used by the old wooden warships, and especially the mortar vessels to adjust bearing for shore bombardment.

Or if you're not using a bridle, you can use an anchor spring -- just tie on another warp the way you tie your snubber, haul on it, and belay it on a cleat down the deck somewhere. By adjusting the length of this line, you can precisely adjust the angle of the bow to the wind.

This is a great help in tidal currents, or for boats (like our old one) which "dance" at anchor.

Two anchors down is a recipe for a tangle. We avoid it as much as possible.

[David_Old_Jersey]

So many variables seems strange to be discussing hard rules. But one thing not yet mentioned is............"Locals Rule"


But can't say I had ever heard of centuries of anchoring conventions backed up by law / the USCG. But I guess (like onshore) some afloat like to lay down the law for others - for their own benefit. I can see how claiming to be King of an anchorage would fit in well with that mindset.

Me is a kinda laid back fella so not looking to be close neighbours with an obnoxious selfish tw#t - but if that is my only option then so be it, perfectly happy to also play silly b#ggers if needed or for keeps

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

But can't say I had ever heard of centuries of anchoring conventions backed up by law / the USCG. But I guess (like onshore) some afloat like to lay down the law for others - for their own benefit. I can see how claiming to be King of an anchorage would fit in well with that mindset.

Thank you David! If I sail into an anchorage and some bonehead whos been drinking all day wants me to anchor one way, whilst I, who have been paying attention to the weather, know that the wind is gonna veer and pick up to thirty would rather swing another... I'm the captain of my own boat. I'll just make sure our boats wont meet by accident, and that I cant foul a prop on my neighbor's floating property markers should I need to leave in a hurry...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

So many variables seems strange to be discussing hard rules. But one thing not yet mentioned is............"Locals Rule"


But can't say I had ever heard of centuries of anchoring conventions backed up by law / the USCG. But I guess (like onshore) some afloat like to lay down the law for others - for their own benefit. I can see how claiming to be King of an anchorage would fit in well with that mindset.

Me is a kinda laid back fella so not looking to be close neighbours with an obnoxious selfish tw#t - but if that is my only option then so be it, perfectly happy to also play silly b#ggers if needed or for keeps

Hear Hear.... there are no rules only advised procedures... I come into a new anchorage, circle around under sail(except when no wind) a couple of times to get a feel of wind and water then pick my spot, furl the jib and do the final approach under main... drop the hook at let her bed herself in while I drop the main.
I do this by hand as it gives me a greater sense of whats happening down there than a windlass... 21ft to 40ft boat... same method...
I've never dragged onto anyone.. or swung into them for that matter... if I see a fore and aft set up I just steer clear... figure the guy lacks confidence in either his gear or himself..
1 anchor = quick getaway... 2 = "Oh Jeez" in an emergency...

[SvenG]

Originally Posted by Christian Van H

Sven, do you seriously want me to list EVERY possible unsafe anchoring method for EVERY condition?

Why would I want you to do that ?

I wanted to know, as I explicitly asked, if it was the one versus two anchors of the first boat that you considered unsafe and you would therefore not feel obliged to follow accepted etiquette/convention.



-Sven

[SvenG]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

The concept of "first in gets to choose" only makes sense in small or very crowded anchorages.

I won't argue with that. I will not get into what constitutes "small" or "very crowded" since that is so subjective that only lawyers wanting to rack up billable hours would care to debate it.


-Sven

[Bash]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I've never dragged onto anyone.. or swung into them for that matter... if I see a fore and aft set up I just steer clear... figure the guy lacks confidence in either his gear or himself..

here in California--especially down in the Channel Islands--use of stern anchors has become the convention in some coves because more boats can be accommodated that way. A cove where only 2-3 boats could swing can now accommodate 6-7 boats anchored bow and stern.

Indeed, sometimes it requires a bit more confidence to do it the way the locals do it.

There are clearly situations where dropping a stern anchor puts the boat in greater danger. This is especially true when tidal currents don't cooperate with the wind. However, the reality of cruising in 2010 is that there are more boats anchoring out than there were in 2000, and we've got to find ways to share a cove when it needs to be shared, and to otherwise stay out of each other's hair when there's room to spread out.

[Randyonr3]

The origional post stated that someone came in and anchored in "his space" and being what he felt was to close.. a very common accurance.. My statement was to drop a stern anchor to ward off..
The fact is true, most weekenders not only dont carry a second anchor but if they did, dont know how to set it..
This wasnt to create a thread drift, only to state a fact..
But the fact is, If a you pull into an anchorage and there is a bow and stern line off a boat, you need to follow in suite or move on..

I made a call to the local Coast Guard and the rules of anchorage are well enough known, they hold up in court..
I would feel the same way if I approached an anchorage where someone had dropped only one anchor, I would conform to the setting or I would move on..
And there is exception..
On my way south a couple years ago I pulled into SanSimion (sp)..
Anyone who has stayed there knows is a small cove, and a great place to hang out in a north west blow, but its a small anchorage..
When I pulled in, there was already a boat at anchor in the center of the cove.. We dropped a lunch hook and I unloaded the dink and approached the other boat.. asking him to double up for the night and to give me a little room.. He said there was no problem but sence I was already in my dink, He asked for me to drop his stern anchor.. put his anchor in the dink and took it out a hundred or so feet and dropped it as he requested..
With him now secured for and aft, it gave me the security to do the same..
To anyone that has'nt spent time doubled up or its been awhile, Id suggest you get back into the stream of it. If a time comes that you HAVE to , to spend a night somewhere, and you dont have the experance, you're going to have problems..

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by Christian Van H

Not quite sure where this comes from Randy, but if you directed that tirade at me I'll surely answer. I'm the captain of MY boat, been anchoring 38 years now, and if I sail into a harbor and see the first boat there anchored in what I deem an unsafe manor, I'm sure as **** not gonna copy him. (See, I can curse too!) BTW, I know what your "Floats" are for, and I believe they are 50 times more likely to snag someone else's prop than to be needed to pull your anchor out backwards. Now, have I broken any of your rules?

If you have as much experance as you say, 38 years, figured you started sailing at 10, that would put you around 45 to 50 years old and I would think with that age, and experance, you wouldnt chalange something like the rules of anchoring.. If you dont accept the way someone has anchored, you just move on down the road..
And as far as the floats on my anchors, what the hell are you doing that close to my boat anyway..
You might have the experance but you talk like a 17 year old with his first boat.

[Stillraining]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

The origional post stated that someone came in and anchored in "his space" and being what he felt was to close.. a very common accurance.. My statement was to drop a stern anchor to ward off..
The fact is true, most weekenders not only dont carry a second anchor but if they did, dont know how to set it..
This wasnt to create a thread drift, only to state a fact..
But the fact is, If a you pull into an anchorage and there is a bow and stern line off a boat, you need to follow in suite or move on..

I made a call to the local Coast Guard and the rules of anchorage are well enough known, they hold up in court..
I would feel the same way if I approached an anchorage where someone had dropped only one anchor, I would conform to the setting or I would move on..
And there is exception..
On my way south a couple years ago I pulled into SanSimion (sp)..
Anyone who has stayed there knows is a small cove, and a great place to hang out in a north west blow, but its a small anchorage..
When I pulled in, there was already a boat at anchor in the center of the cove.. We dropped a lunch hook and I unloaded the dink and approached the other boat.. asking him to double up for the night and to give me a little room.. He said there was no problem but sence I was already in my dink, He asked for me to drop his stern anchor.. put his anchor in the dink and took it out a hundred or so feet and dropped it as he requested..
With him now secured for and aft, it gave me the security to do the same..
To anyone that has'nt spent time doubled up or its been awhile, Id suggest you get back into the stream of it. If a time comes that you HAVE to , to spend a night somewhere, and you dont have the experance, you're going to have problems..

I think we are all in agreement with this Randy..At least I am....

It is the point I have been trying to make the whole time and how I would handle a situwation like that as well as how I would appreciate being approached myself.....Good on ya!

If you notice you didn't "Except the first boats lead or move on" as you have earlier been mandating...You actually changed it....That is an A-OK request with most of us, if we can help out another boater...But no need to follow the lead if there is plenty of room..That's is all I have been trying to say and figure out whats wrong with that thinking...

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by Stillraining

If you notice you didn't "Except the first boats lead or move on" as you have earlier been mandating...You actually changed it....That is an A-OK request with most of us, if we can help out another boater...But no need to follow the lead if there is plenty of room..That's is all I have been trying to say and figure out whats wrong with that thinking...

There's a difference, I asked him to add another anchor, not to drop one to allow boats to swing.. adding another anchor only adds to the holding power and stability of the boat..
And He had a choice, as he could have asked me to move on and I would have.. as it was, to accomplish what I was asking for, I had to set his aft anchor for him.. actually, I also pulled it for him the next morning befor we left....

[Stillraining]

Your a tough egg Randy...I respect your opinion ...I just disagree...there is no difference.

Carry on!..

Hope to share an anchorage with you some day!...I think..

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

But the fact is, If a you pull into an anchorage and there is a bow and stern line off a boat, you need to follow in suite or move on..

Still not true.

Maybe repeating it again will make it true?

Go on, give it a try

[boatman61]

The only time I've run a line from astern is when I've anchored in some of the smaller Calla's in the Balearic's where its too narrow to swing.... then its drop the hook and go astern till you can step off and get a stern line round a tree or decent rock... bit like in the marina's...
If there's four or five you move on... its the luck of the draw.
Stability with two anchors is a suspect argument for me as Sod's Law would bring a wind/wave shift that would start me rolling in the middle of the night.... my most unfavourite thing... as strangely enough in spite of all my years on the water I'm still prone to nausea
Personally if I'm swinging and causing no risk, and someone came over and told me I had to drop another off my stern, I would be highly amused and ask if I could have some of what he's smoking.. if he insisted, I fear gentlemanly conduct would be put under strain.

What I'd love to know is do you lay your hooks along the length of this Channel... or from one shallow side to the other....