Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-01-2013, 11:09   #1
Registered User
 
flink's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Galveston, TX
Boat: Block Island 40
Posts: 90
Suggestions for Second Anchor?

I currently have a 35 lb Delta Anchor mounted on my bow that I use as my primary anchor on my Block Island 40 (aproximately 23,000 lbs.).

The Delta has worked well in mud and sand but it has dragged occasionally in winds greater than 30 mph with wave action and other times when I probably didn't take enough time to set it correctly. I am reasonably pleased with it but I am currently cruising and intend to visit many places with different types of bottoms to anchor in and will likely have to anchor in many exposed areas in less than ideal weather conditions.

I am trying to find an anchor that gives me strong holding power in different types of bottoms. Ideally I would like to find one that holds in the types of bottoms where the Delta has trouble. I would like to compliment the Delta with another anchor that will compensate for it's short-commings and not simply a redundant anchor.

Also, my cradle for my delta sits just to the right of my fore-stay. I will need to install another cradle to the left (and extended further out) but I don't see how I can mount the second anchor/cradle and be able to deploy the anchor on the shorter cradle without it catching on the other.

Lastly, I've thought about mounting an oversized anchor for my second anchor and using 300' of heavy chain. Is their a reason I may not want to do this?

BTW: I do keep a big Danforth and a large yachtsman in my locker as spares and I have a small Danforth for a kedge. I just need another go-to anchor up front at the ready.

I appreciate your thoughts, comments, suggestions.
__________________
I have found that drinking rum in sufficient quantities will produce all the effects of intoxication....
flink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 11:13   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 15,395
Re: Suggestions for second anchor?

Best holding power in mud, soft sand and similar is a Fortress anchor. Downside is they do not reset well if there is a major shift in wind or current.

My anchor philosophy is to keep a couple of different types on the boat as no anchor is best for all bottom types.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 11:19   #3
Registered User
 
flink's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Galveston, TX
Boat: Block Island 40
Posts: 90
Re: Suggestions for second anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Best holding power in mud, soft sand and similar is a Fortress anchor. Downside is they do not reset well if there is a major shift in wind or current.

My anchor philosophy is to keep a couple of different types on the boat as no anchor is best for all bottom types.
Thanks skipmac. That's pretty much my point. My Delta does well in soft sand and mud. I'm looking for one that will perform well in grass, hard-packed sand, etc. As I mentioned; I have other anchors but I need one that will compensate for the Delta's short-commings and one that I can mount on the bow next to the Delta. Wouldn't the Fortress be rather redundant?
__________________
I have found that drinking rum in sufficient quantities will produce all the effects of intoxication....
flink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 11:28   #4
Registered User
 
cfarrar's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brooklin, Maine U.S.A
Boat: Allures 44
Posts: 734
Images: 2
Re: Suggestions for second anchor?

In my humble opinion, the simplest solution is to replace the 35# Delta with a larger, new generation anchor. You'll be amazed at the difference, and this will be all that you need 98% of the time. Keep the Delta in the locker with the Danforth for those rare times when you need a second anchor (small anchorage and limited swing room) or a large fluke anchor like the Danforth (real soft Chesapeake mud). Unless you're cruising Newfoundland or Patagonia, leave the fisherman at home in the flower garden.
cfarrar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 11:31   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,945
Re: Suggestions for second anchor?

My thinking has always been that you want your primary anchor to be one that will hold you in up to and beyond gale force winds, and then your secondary to be relatively light and useful as a kedge, for Bahamiam moors, and to put out in a V when it looks like you're going to get an exceptionally big blow. I would recommend upgrading your primary, on all chain, to a 45-lb something like a Mantus/Manson/Rocna/Spade, which seem to be everyone's favorites right now. Then the secondary could be something like a Fortress FX-37 on mostly rope. I myself would stow that anchor off the bow, as chances are good you won't be using it most of the time, and it will just be in the way up there. On my 38-foot motorsailor, fairly heavy and with some windage, I use a 45-lb primary Mantus and have two Fortress FX-23s I use like I described above.
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 11:37   #6
Ram
Registered User
 
Ram's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cruising Greece
Boat: Cat in the med & Trawler in Florida
Posts: 2,307
Images: 27
Re: Suggestions for second anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
My thinking has always been that you want your primary anchor to be one that will hold you in up to and beyond gale force winds, and then your secondary to be relatively light and useful as a kedge, for Bahamiam moors, and to put out in a V when it looks like you're going to get an exceptionally big blow. I would recommend upgrading your primary, on all chain, to a 45-lb something like a Mantus/Manson/Rocna/Spade, which seem to be everyone's favorites right now. Then the secondary could be something like a Fortress FX-37 on mostly rope. I myself would stow that anchor off the bow, as chances are good you won't be using it most of the time, and it will just be in the way up there. On my 38-foot motorsailor, fairly heavy and with some windage, I use a 45-lb primary Mantus and have two Fortress FX-23s I use like I described above.
This is the right recipe for success- I second this !
Ram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 11:40   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 15,395
Re: Suggestions for second anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flink View Post
Thanks skipmac. That's pretty much my point. My Delta does well in soft sand and mud. I'm looking for one that will perform well in grass, hard-packed sand, etc. As I mentioned; I have other anchors but I need one that will compensate for the Delta's short-commings and one that I can mount on the bow next to the Delta. Wouldn't the Fortress be rather redundant?
Sorry I guess I misunderstood. Your original post I thought you were saying that your Delta occasionally dragged in sand and mud when the winds were over 30 kts.

Second the recommendation to buy a new generation anchor. Pick your poison of Mantus, Rocna, Manson, etc. I have a Mantus and an older made in New Zealand Rocna in addition to a Fortress.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 11:49   #8
Registered User
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 23,684
Re: Suggestions for second anchor?

The Delta should do well in sand, shell and coarse mud. If it's not, you need to figure out what's really down there. Mud on top of clay or hard pan can be almost impossible for any anchor. Or that really fine mud seems to allow anchors to pull thru it. A fortress may help if it's fine mud and deep enough for it to set properly. or as said, roll the dice on a new design anchor....
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 12:26   #9
Registered User
 
flink's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Galveston, TX
Boat: Block Island 40
Posts: 90
Re: Suggestions for second anchor?

I appreciate all the suggestions and the consensus seems to be to just go with a new gen anchor. I see the point and may very well do that. But one question I still have is this:

My research of anchors has left me with the impression that there is no single anchor that is good for all bottoms types. Some do well in soft sand and mud but perform poorly in grassy bottoms or hard-packed sand. Others will perform well in grass and hard sand but perform poorly in loose mud or sand.

Does it not make sense to have tackle on the bow that will work in all bottoms? If so, wouldn't this require 2 hooks up front?

Not being argumentative. I appreciate the advice. I'm just trying to make certain that I'm going with the best decision. These anchors are not cheap and the chain is rediculously priced as well. I just want to make sure my money is well spent.

You all seem to agree that one bad-ass anchor should be all I need. If so, which do you guys think is the best "all-around" anchor? I've only been cruising for a year and a half and don't have a whole lot of experience with different types. I don't want to get any fireworks started. I'm just wondering if there is an anchor that is most commonly employed by cruisers. And if so, why?

Thanks again for the suggestions. Very helpfull.
__________________
I have found that drinking rum in sufficient quantities will produce all the effects of intoxication....
flink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 12:32   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,945
Re: Suggestions for second anchor?

That is a loaded question and will likely start another anchor war. The correct answer is that there is no consensus on the single "best" anchor. All of the new-generation types have their proponents, and I don't think you can go wrong with a Rocna/Manson Supreme/Mantus/Spade. They are very versatile, and you should find that your main anchor will perform well 90% of the time.
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 13:16   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
Re: Suggestions for second anchor?

To me it seems your anchors just a little light! Ive had good luck with the delta, but I would like a larger size for a 40 ft cruiseing boat ! With all chain if ya can stand the weight up front!! The new age anchors are just fine, but a delta 20 lbs larger would do the job I would think !! Just my 2 cents
__________________
Bob and Connie
bobconnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 13:44   #12
Registered User
 
sabray's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wash DC
Boat: PETERSON 44
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobconnie
To me it seems your anchors just a little light! Ive had good luck with the delta, but I would like a larger size for a 40 ft cruiseing boat ! With all chain if ya can stand the weight up front!! The new age anchors are just fine, but a delta 20 lbs larger would do the job I would think !! Just my 2 cents
That was my first thought. Size up as the size is on the lower reach. . No fan of the way overkill massive anchor. I have 60 kg Bruce and 65 lb Manson plus a fortress on the stern. All have updated rhode. Use a snubber to absorb shock loads. Standard reply.
sabray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 14:06   #13
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
Re: Suggestions for second anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flink View Post
I appreciate all the suggestions and the consensus seems to be to just go with a new gen anchor. I see the point and may very well do that. But one question I still have is this:

My research of anchors has left me with the impression that there is no single anchor that is good for all bottoms types. Some do well in soft sand and mud but perform poorly in grassy bottoms or hard-packed sand. Others will perform well in grass and hard sand but perform poorly in loose mud or sand.

Does it not make sense to have tackle on the bow that will work in all bottoms? If so, wouldn't this require 2 hooks up front?

Not being argumentative. I appreciate the advice. I'm just trying to make certain that I'm going with the best decision. These anchors are not cheap and the chain is rediculously priced as well. I just want to make sure my money is well spent.

You all seem to agree that one bad-ass anchor should be all I need. If so, which do you guys think is the best "all-around" anchor? I've only been cruising for a year and a half and don't have a whole lot of experience with different types. I don't want to get any fireworks started. I'm just wondering if there is an anchor that is most commonly employed by cruisers. And if so, why?

Thanks again for the suggestions. Very helpfull.

Our Oyster came with a Lewmar CQR which we've been very happy with. Most of the Oyster and Discovery boats are purpose built to take their owners anywhere they want to go, and most do spend lot's of time cruising like us. They all come standard with a CQR which seems to be a good all around anchor which doesn't have trouble resetting itself with a wind shift just so long as it was set correctly to begin with. I anchored for two weeks off Saint Peter Port, Guernsey last summer, despite enormous tidal shifts 28-30 feet in height, the CRQ never let me down or dragged at all. 'Was like anchoring during a tsunami at times. It just seems to plow a deep hole in a small circle with each directional change. When comparing a Delta to a CQR, I think the proper hinge on the Lewmar makes all the difference along with an all chain rode with snubber.

The Oyster 82 next to us also had a CQR. Our friends on a Discovery 55 dragged with an over-sized Spade.

That said, I hope to add an over-sized Ultra Anchor in the near future for use in weeds, but there's no hurry. I also have a Fortress 55 for kedge and storm. In a storm, I'd use the Fortress in tandem with the CQR.
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 14:29   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gloucester, MA
Boat: CS 36t
Posts: 387
Re: Suggestions for second anchor?

As posted above, replacing your current main anchor with an appropriately sized new generation anchor is likely the best way to go. As to the question of having to carry multiple anchors for different bottoms, the new generation anchors will outperform any of the old generation anchors in any bottom type in my opinion. Because I have yet to run into a bottom type where I could find a better anchor than a new generation, I no longer worry about carrying a selection (note: I have heard reports of a few very specific high latitude places where this is not true but this doesn't sound like what you will be doing).

Still, having a second anchor aboard is critical and it must meet many of the same specifications as your primary. The situations where it is likely to be used are where you are dragging, where kedging is required and where you loose your main anchor. In a dragging situation, what you need is an anchor that will bite really quickly no matter what the bottom is and provide a decent amount of holding power. For this, I would choose another new generation anchor, while anchors like a fortress can provide more holding power, I have found them to be unreliable to set when drifting backwards at several knots. For kedging, something that is light and easy to handle with good holding power is best. While you can pinch your hands with them, the fortress is usually the best anchor for this. For situations where you have lost your primary hook, your second anchor needs to be capable of setting well, veering, resetting, etc until you can get a new primary but it is okay if it is a bit harder to handle(fit in the bow roller, etc). For this purpose, something like a new generation anchor works well.

It is up to you to decide what type of cruising you will be doing and exactly what specs the second anchor must meet. For example, if you you never are more than a 1 hour sail from your home mooring, a second anchor is probably unnecessary. However, if you plan to ride out named storms on the hook, then both your primary and secondaries better be up to the task on their own. It may well be that your current delta would make a reasonable second anchor for the type of cruising you are planning.

We carry 2 new gen anchors (different models) and a danforth. One new gen lives on the bow and is used everyday and the other is our backup. The danforth is used if we ever need to set a second anchor for any reason as it is easier to handle.
klem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 17:43   #15
Registered User
 
flink's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Galveston, TX
Boat: Block Island 40
Posts: 90
Re: Suggestions for second anchor?

Thanks guys,

This is very helpful. I am now looking into which new gen anchor I intend to purchase. I will keep my Delta as back-up. All of the suggestions here seem to agree that one hook up front is sufficient provided it's the "right" anchor.

I appreciate all of the help.
__________________
I have found that drinking rum in sufficient quantities will produce all the effects of intoxication....
flink is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bow Roller Bolted to the Stem Plate SlugmasterP Anchoring & Mooring 11 06-11-2012 01:41
For Sale: 75 Pound CQR-type Galvanized Anchor for Sale skipgundlach Classifieds Archive 3 09-02-2012 16:49
A Second Wind for Rocna foggysail Anchoring & Mooring 209 15-12-2011 17:55
For Sale: 75# CQR-Type Galvanized Anchor skipgundlach Classifieds Archive 1 27-11-2011 11:48

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:15.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.