Stern Light at Anchor

[doug86]

Originally Posted by Unicorn Dreams

Reading the rules that strictly would mean any white light at night would be illegal.

No, reading the rules doesn't lead to that conclusion. If you want to turn it around, what it says is you can burn any dang light you want, as long as it can't be mistaken for a navigation light.

But, the more important point is, why would one choose to take a chance when there are so many cheap alternatives?

To the OP, you could by some cheap theater lighting gel in an amber or blue color and clip that over your stern light for your guests and be perfectly within the Rules. Or, find some other tinted media that fits over your stern light.

There are many solutions, but pointing to the consensus of an internet forum will not be your best defense should something terrible happen.

[Kettlewell]

here are many solutions, but pointing to the consensus of an internet forum will not be your best defense should something terrible happen.

How could something terrible happen if someone did mistake his light and think the boat was underway? It is a white light, you can't head towards a white light as it would logically be the stern of a boat you are overtaking.

[doug86]

The OP proposed burning an anchor light and stern light at same time while at anchor. This would show as white over white from astern.

The importance of having anchor lights conform to the specific requirements was emphasized in a number of cases..... In one case, a seventy-five-foot dredge in NY Harbor exhibited two white lights at anchor instead of the stationary single light. The dredge was mistaken by an approaching tug with tow for tug underway and being overtaken [and the tug suffered damage as she was overtaken by her own tow while attempting to maneuver out of the way]....both were held at fault, the dredge because of her improper lights"

The Arther, 108F. 577 (S.D.N.Y 1901)
(excerpt from Farwell's Rules of the Nautical Road, pgs 487-488)

[Kettlewell]

Yes, but that was a dredge showing its normal white over white. This would be a sailboat showing a masthead anchor light and a deck-level white probably 40-50 feet lower. It is hard to imagine how anyone could mistake that for a white over white running light. I could imagine someone mistaking it for a sailboat under power that forgot to turn off his masthead light, but in most harbors where someone is likely to anchor there won't be tugs pulling barges that might get into trouble. In any case, it seems highly unlikely that this light combination could get anyone into trouble.

[boasun]

Originally Posted by Waterwayguy

Doug is absolutely correct in the technical and legal sense. But we cruised the Gulf Coast IWW a couple of times and anchoring anywhere can mean a late night encounter with a transiting tug and barge. We use a series of solar lights at deck level in addition to our LED anchor light while at anchor to give us more visibility. Both tug Captains and local DNR have commented on the lights as a good idea while at anchor. Having said that of course, you run the potential for legal risks should an incident occur and you wind up in court. Our preference, and only ours, is to have the security of additional visibility over potential legal concerns that may never happen. But of course every Skipper has to make their own decisions here. Chuck

Being lite up like a Christmas tree while at anchor (Anchor, & deck lights), do make you easier to be seen and avoided. And I do want everyone out there moving to see and avoid me. The vessels over 100 meters are recommended to have their work deck lights on along with the anchor light. So even if we are not that size, I see it as a good thing.

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Yes, but that was a dredge showing its normal white over white. This would be a sailboat showing a masthead anchor light and a deck-level white probably 40-50 feet lower. It is hard to imagine how anyone could mistake that for a white over white running light. I could imagine someone mistaking it for a sailboat under power that forgot to turn off his masthead light, but in most harbors where someone is likely to anchor there won't be tugs pulling barges that might get into trouble. In any case, it seems highly unlikely that this light combination could get anyone into trouble.

Beyond the fact that it's against the rules, it's just kind of lame to do something that causes other mariners to have to second guess and "figure out" what you're doing. A stern light means you're underway, and two white lights can easily be separated by 40' in the case of a larger vessel that needs to run two masthead lights.

I just don't see how it's fair to expect everyone else moving around at night to have to figure out the unique and special way someone's deciding to carry themselves.

Consistency and common lighting is the only thing that makes navigating at night safe so it's a bit hypocritical to be happy that all other vessels are doing it properly while someone saves on a four hour wiring job or zip tying a solar garden light somewhere.

Just my $0.02.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by doug86

The OP proposed burning an anchor light and stern light at same time while at anchor. This would show as white over white from astern.

The Arther, 108F. 577 (S.D.N.Y 1901)
(excerpt from Farwell's Rules of the Nautical Road, pgs 487-488)

Thanks for the reference it would seem this is a very unusual accident and I am happy to take my chances with such remote possibilities. As Kettlewell pointed out almost any misinterpretation would still make a boat that collided with you the give way boat that is reassuring.

Many yachtsmen feel ( myself included) that a single masthead light is not very effective in a typical small boat anchorage.
It would be a pity if the collision regulations are preventing us displaying additional white lights.

[doug86]

I agree, any trouble is highly unlikely. Even less so if anchored in a cove with a few other small boats anchored around all showing anchor lights.

But, let's take a stand for doing our best to abide by the Rules of the Road, and to strive to be responsible boaters whenever we can. I can think of dozens of solutions to the OP that would cost less than $10 and completely eliminate any chance of confusion. Are we really debating that he shouldn't make that small, inexpensive effort? A $2 LED flashlight attached to the stern rail with a wire tie to point down into the water would light the way for his guests and reduce any chance that another boater might be confused.

[Capt Phil]

rebel heart... your $0.02 of advice is worth a million $ IMHO... that is what Maritime Rules and Regs are for, so we are using the same play book... cheers, Capt Phil

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

Beyond the fact that it's against the rules, it's just kind of lame to do something that causes other mariners to have to second guess and "figure out" what you're doing. A stern light means you're underway, and two white lights can easily be separated by 40' in the case of a larger vessel that needs to run two masthead lights.

I just don't see how it's fair to expect everyone else moving around at night to have to figure out the unique and special way someone's deciding to carry themselves.

Consistency and common lighting is the only thing that makes navigating at night safe so it's a bit hypocritical to be happy that all other vessels are doing it properly while someone saves on a four hour wiring job or zip tying a solar garden light somewhere.

Just my $0.02.

I come in to a lot of anchorages at night and personally I welcome a boat displaying additional lights. The single masthead light is not very effective in a small boat anchorage.
Rather than a negative and confusing additional lights, at anchor, are helpful.

I do agree that just solar garden lights are not enough on there own.

[doug86]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Can I use a stern light at anchor as long as I also show an all-round white anchor light?

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Thanks for the reference it would seem this is a very unusual accident and I am happy to take my chances with such remote possibilities. As Kettlewell pointed out almost any misinterpretation would still make a boat that collided with you the give way boat that is reassuring.

Many yachtsmen feel ( myself included) that a single masthead light is not very effective in a typical small boat anchorage.
It would be a pity if the collision regulations are preventing us displaying additional white lights.

So, you asked "Can I"... and the replies included the exact quote from the Rules of the Road that clearly indicate that you shouldn't. Then, when you challenged the interpretation of the Rule, and an example of a court case with similar lighting circumstances is also quoted. You discount that as too unusual.

A number of posters have agreed that it would be contrary to the Rules, and you say "Well, I don't really care, I'm going to do it anyway."

So, I have to ask: why did you post the original question if your mind was already made up?

[boasun]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Yes, but that was a dredge showing its normal white over white. This would be a sailboat showing a masthead anchor light and a deck-level white probably 40-50 feet lower. It is hard to imagine how anyone could mistake that for a white over white running light. I could imagine someone mistaking it for a sailboat under power that forgot to turn off his masthead light, but in most harbors where someone is likely to anchor there won't be tugs pulling barges that might get into trouble. In any case, it seems highly unlikely that this light combination could get anyone into trouble.

A dredge would be showing; Red over White over Red, for restricted in maneuverbility. Along with two vertical reds on one side and greens on the other side to show the danger and safe sides repectively.
So there is no confussion in mistaking a dredge from an anchored vessel.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by doug86

. Are we really debating that he shouldn't make that small, inexpensive effort? A $2 LED flashlight attached to the stern rail with a wire tie to point down into the water would light the way for his guests and reduce any chance that another boater might be confused.

I am not trying to save money, if I was I would not install a Lopolight.
I don’t feel attaching a less bright light to the stern would make me safer in the real world of a small boat anchorage.

[Kettlewell]

I think the dredge could show white over white if it was towing something and not actively dredging. In any case, I have encountered many, many dredges, at night, and it is usually nearly impossible to discern exactly what they are doing based on their running lights, which are usually obscured and/or totally obliterated by all the other lights they are showing. I have also come astern of many, many commercial vessels at night when it is also impossible to discern what lights are the navigational lights they are showing because they have so many other lights of much greater power and brightness showing--fishing vessels are usually the worst. Cruise ships are not much better. Call them on the radio if in doubt. Not saying that it is a good thing, just the reality out there. But, if I were coming into a harbor where pleasure boats were likely to be anchored and I saw someone with a stern light on and a masthead light I would not for a moment think to myself, "Oh look, someone is towing something in the harbor." And even if I was in a channel and thought it might really be a tow, why would I aim at it? So, I think the chances are small that it would get anyone into trouble, but I do prefer the solar light solution down low, with a masthead LED anchor light.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by doug86

So, you asked "Can I"... and the replies included the exact quote from the Rules of the Road that clearly indicate that you shouldn't. Then, when you challenged the interpretation of the Rule, and an example of a court case with similar lighting circumstances is also quoted. You discount that as too unusual.

A number of posters have agreed that it would be contrary to the Rules, and you say "Well, I don't really care, I'm going to do it anyway."

So, I have to ask: why did you post the original question if your mind was already made up?

I do value the opinion of the forum. I have not made my mind up even as I type. It is something I would like to do and I am of the opinion that it would enhance rather than detract from safety, but I recognize I live in real world an the legal ramifications of these decisions need to be considered.
There has been a range of opinions expressed which is always helpful.