Stern Light at Anchor

[doug86]

The entire reason for the section on lights in the rules is to achieve two things: A) to alert the observer to the presence of another vessel, B) to make it obvious to the observer what that vessel is doing.

The purpose of Rule 20 (b) is to say "Don't show lights that are ambiguous or might confuse the observer as to what your vessel is doing."

Put 4 white lights around your vessel. Hang 5 all around white anchor lights. Ring your lifelines with red/green christmas tree lights. Put a disco ball in the rigging. Show 4 sternlights all at the same time or light a birthday cake on deck. None of that can possibly be confused with any navigation lighting as prescribed in the rules.

Showing only an anchor light and a stern light (as was proposed way back in the first post), with no other lights, can be confusing to an approaching boat. Are you anchored and have one white light on that looks like a stern light, or am I seeing a stern light of a boat that is underway and forgot to turn off his anchor light? Why insist on finding a justification for that when there are so many other options?

No one has said that showing lots of lights (white or colored) is either a bad idea or in conflict with the Rules.

[doug86]

mrm makes a good point. A proper sternlight would be mounted as far aft as practical, and would not illuminate any portion of the vessel. If it can't be located far enough aft to accomplish that, then a skirt of screen should be mounted to prevent its reflecting off the decks.

[Capitain Mike]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

I asked for opinions and got them.
I do appreciate the answers. Even if you fell a stern light is not idea.

From a practical point of view, as others have expressed, I believe more white lights on an anchored boat are a help rather than a hindrance.
If you are approaching an anchorage and see a while light it already has a few possible meanings. As well as boat at anchor, it could be a stern light, an all-round white light of small boat maneuvering deck light cabin light street light etc.
More white lights shown by a boat at anchor ,particularly those that illuminate the deck help rather than hinder, clarify rather than confuse a boat approaching the anchorage. At least you can see the boat which is the most important thing entering an anchorage.

From a legal point of view the only way to tell a white stern light from a anchor light mounted low down (which is legal) is to note that when you get 67.5 degrees from the centerline the white light disappears and the port or starboard navigation lights become visible. The port and starboard lights would not be illuminated, so this confusion does not exist.
There is no way I can see to distinguish a stern light from a deck light .

As an aside I note some approved navigation lights are both a stern light and an anchor light. At anchor, the stern light is left on, but is joined by 225 degree white light. Not quite the same situation as I am proposing, but it could be argued that these approved lights do display a stern light on at anchor, supplemented with additional lights.

OK I am sure my summary will generate some more discussion.

Better to see you and wonder what you are doing than not see you at all !!!

Make them cautious

[Hud3]

OK, I'm game. Let's go for 200 posts!

Has anyone considered this point?

Nolex wants to use the stern light as a safety/courtesy light for people boarding at the stern. A proper (navigation) stern light is designed to be seen at distance, and thus will be shining brightly right in your eyes as you place your foot on the bottom rung of the ladder. Not safe!

A proper courtesy light will have a hood to cast the light downward, and away from your eyes, and perhaps a diffuser lens to spread the light. Safe and effective!

A courtesy light could not be confused with a (navigation) stern light, because, due to the hood, the light itself couldn't be seen at distance, only the parts of the boat illuminated by the light.

Rather than using the stern light for a courtesy light at anchor (and contravening Colregs), why not just add a light or two designed for the intended purpose?

[noelex 77]

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful replies.
To answer some of the questions. The stern light does work well as a courtesy light with no dangerous glare problems.
To mount other lights would be possible, but not easy. The rear of the my boat has a crash bulkhead and the floor is a sealed buoyancy chamber. Any wiring would need to be lead through the gas locker. I think its sensible to reduce the wiring in this locker (there is none at present).
Like most boat owner I already have list of jobs to do. More would cut into the swimming and happy hour time which is not appealing.

[David M]

When you are displaying an anchor light at anchor, any other lighting is considered to be deck lighting. The rule "which cannot be confused with" is irrelevant because in this case a vessel towing would also be showing side lights....which at anchor, you are not showing your side lights.

Additionally, if you are in an anchorage, it should be a no-brainer that you are not towing through an anchorage.

[doug86]

$2 and a little duct tape. Doesn't seem like it would cut into your happy hour much. Amber is universally known as a deck light color, and NOT a nav light color, which is why you see every tugboat's cabin walls lit with amber lights.

Amazon.com: PAR 36 Amber Plastic Lens: Musical Instruments

[doug86]

Originally Posted by David M

When you are displaying an anchor light at anchor, any other lighting is considered to be deck lighting.

According to who?

How do you account for someone who is underway and forgot to turn off the anchor light?

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by doug86

Amber is universally known as a deck light color, and NOT a nav light color, which is why you see every tugboat's cabin walls lit with amber lights.

Lopolight sell an amber navigation light. It’s a whistle light whatever that is. Surfaced submarines are required to show a flashing amber navigation light.
If you were close to the 135 degree cut off the light could be flashing as the boat rocks.
I don’t want to mistaken for a submarine.

OK these are slightly ridiculous examples, but they do show there are problems with a very strict interpretation of rule 20 (no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights which cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules.)

It doesn’t mean that a very liberal interpretation is correct either, but it does suggest we need to apply some common sense when applying this rule.

[doug86]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

. Surfaced submarines are required to show a flashing amber navigation light.
If you were close to the 135 degree cut off the light could be flashing as the boat rocks.
I don’t want to mistaken for a submarine.
.

Two comments: a) the flashing amber light is OPTIONAL for subs, not required under the rules; c)the sub would not also be showing an anchor light at the same time.

CFR about sub amber flashing

[Capitain Mike]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Lopolight sell an amber navigation light. It’s a whistle light whatever that is. Surfaced submarines are required to show a flashing amber navigation light.
If you were close to the 135 degree cut off the light could be flashing as the boat rocks.
I don’t want to mistaken for a submarine.

OK these are slightly ridiculous examples, but they do show there are problems with a very strict interpretation of rule 20 (no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights which cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules.)

It doesn’t mean that a very liberal interpretation is correct either, but it does suggest we need to apply some common sense when applying this rule.

As long as they see you and you are an obstacle floating or otherwise that is all that really matters who is going to try to interpret the regs at night if there is a problem the regs don't matter at a time of danger you got to be safe.

To cut the c**p going on here the main point is that they see you.

When I am night sailing I don't take it for granted that they are following regs what ever regs.

USA or all the other similar regs world wide I don't even think about it. I ascertain are they stationery going away or coming towards me or cutting across.

Just because your following regs does not mean they are and if it looks like they are and you don't check for yourself god help you if they have got them wrong.

If your are on a motor way and you get an idiot driver the first thing to do is take evasive action.

You armchair sailors Less talking about Regs and get on with more sailing.

[Bash]

Am I the only one who enjoys sitting out in the cockpit after dark?

I keep hearing variations on theme of "the more lights the better." I suppose this is fine if you've got an anchorage to yourself, but if you're sharing the anchorage with other boats, all you're really accomplishing is adding to light pollution that's going to block other people's enjoyment of the stars. This is especially nefarious if it means you're going to be inclined to run a generator longer in order to keep the batteries up while you run all these extra lights.

Running a stern light all night is as unnecessary as it is obnoxious. If you're scared of the dark, stay in a well-lit marina. Leave the coves to those of us who are trying to escape from all that artificial light.

[markpierce]

On my boat, if the stern natigation light is on, both starboard and port navigation light would also be on. Also, the stern light would not lighten the swim platform so wouldn't be of much help to boarders. So, both illegal and ineffective when anchored. Boaters tend to be a very independent lot. No wonder some of us disdain the Colregs.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by Bash

Am I the only one who enjoys sitting out in the cockpit after dark?

Nope. Lots of lights are not far behind errant boaters, dragging anchors, and loud noise from generators, radios, TVs, and voices that will destroy the ambiance.

[Astrid]

lots of light attracts bugs too.