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Old 11-04-2011, 13:27   #76
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Re: Stern Light at Anchor

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Originally Posted by Viking Sailor View Post
Because, for a properly lit vessel, the single white light at the masthead precludes consideration of the stern light as there is no rule that exists for a stern light combined with a single white masthead light. And, any vessel showing a single white masthead light must be assumed to be restricted in its ability to maneuver.

So, can I leave all my running lights on AND my anchor light on? I mean, there is no provision for that configuration for a "properly lit vessel"...
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Old 11-04-2011, 13:53   #77
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Re: Stern Light at Anchor

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So, can I leave all my running lights on AND my anchor light on? I mean, there is no provision for that configuration for a "properly lit vessel"...
No, because a vessel approaching your bow would see lights for a power-driven vessel underway per rule 23.

23. Lights displayed by power-driven vessels underway
  • A power-driven vessel underway must display:
    • a masthead light forward (112.5 deg's forward);
    • If over 50 metres (164 ft) length, then also a second masthead light aft and higher than the forward one; except that a vessel of less than 50 metres in length shall not be obliged to exhibit such light but may do so;
    • sidelights (112.5 deg's forward);
    • a sternlight (135 deg's aft).
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Old 11-04-2011, 14:13   #78
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Re: Stern Light at Anchor

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So, can I leave all my running lights on AND my anchor light on? I mean, there is no provision for that configuration for a "properly lit vessel"...
I think that is running in place. When Im coming into anchorage at night Im looking at lights or illumiated things. based on this I make choices. Soo all around white most likely anchored running lights and anchor light damned if i know. So now you are messing with my choices. Not very neighborly.
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Old 11-04-2011, 14:16   #79
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Re: Stern Light at Anchor

I'm beginning to think that everyone here are putting their two cents into this subject because they know more then the Professionals, even to the point where they say the professionals are in the wrong.
I have sailed for a period of time starting in the summer of '58, and have been instructing on this subject i.e. Rules of the Road. for over five years...
Now when I'm anchored I want my vessel lite up like a christmas tree without the red or green lights. Anchor and Deck lights will be bright. As required for a vessel over 100 meters and that makes it optional for us smaller vessels. Believe me, I've done this many times and had no squak from USCG or Harbor Police. I like to be seen and avoided. many times the anchor light on a sailboat is 55 to 70 feet in the air and people on run abouts or cabin cruiser don't always look high for said anchor light. Especially if he/she have had more than one beer. And there is one case of a drunk deputy sheriff who ran down a sail boat because he, as he claims, didn't seen the sailboat's stern light and then hid the damage power boat. And there are many other examples out there where a small anchor light isn't enough.
Now if I saw that sailboat at anchor with an anchor light and his stern light. By plotting it on my radar or by a lack of visual movement on the part of the sailboat, I would know that it isn't moving and probably at anchor. But this is an observation of a professional...Without playing Sea Lawyer in the process.
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Old 11-04-2011, 14:18   #80
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Re: Stern Light at Anchor

ok, ... lets see if I understand your position: A vessel at anchor can show an anchor light and a stern light, because he isn't moving, he is properly lit for an anchored vessel. But, a vessel underway would be incorrect to show a stern light and an anchor light because he isn't at anchor?

And, now the question: in the dark, from a mile away, how am I supposed to know which of those two vessels is the improperly lit vessel?
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Old 11-04-2011, 14:34   #81
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Re: Stern Light at Anchor

The question is: How do you know that light is or isn't a stern light?
But the master of that vessel should be using an all around light instead... But then Identifying the lights can be problematic just by guessing.
A mile away using my binoculars I could probably Id the light. But I would also be able to observe if there is a wake or not. And note the activity in the cockpit of said vessel.
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Old 11-04-2011, 15:40   #82
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Re: Stern Light at Anchor

Hmm. Should I go back to the beginning of this thread and do tick marks for those who understand the rules AND are out there in the world and everyone else?
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Old 11-04-2011, 15:57   #83
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Re: Stern Light at Anchor

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Originally Posted by doug86 View Post
RULE 20: APPLICATION

So, your stern light most certainly can be mistaken for a light specified in the rules, meaning that your display of it at anchor is indeed a violation of the Rules.

Your vessel would be showing "white over white" when viewed from astern, which is the masthead configuration of a vessel engaged in towing.

A light of a color not specified in the rules is fine, like an amber light, or a blue light.
It would be closer to an anchor vessel of 50 meters or more showing two white lights one higher in bow nearest the rode and the other in the rear of the boat.

Occupational lights, towing lights are more midship and very close to each other, two white 360 lights for towing and a third if the tow is over 200 meters.

The inland rules and the Colregs allow for other lights to be use as long as they do not interfere in a proper look out for the other boat. under rule 20 b or c can't remember which right now
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Old 11-04-2011, 16:05   #84
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Re: Stern Light at Anchor

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Originally Posted by swagman View Post
Sorry Rebel Heart and Cpt Phil to disagree also.

Adding a stern light at anchor might get you boarded by coastguards in the USA, although this story is the only one I've heard. Indeed it might even get you chased by a US insurance company if someone rammed you, but I've never heard of that actually happening either.............

Practically, in the rest of the world, adding that extra light would be accepted OK.

Most sailors (professional and others) would more easily see the added light(s), thereby better avoid the anchored boat, and IMHO probably think 'what a sensible skipper' to light up his boat even better than the regs require
John, I have to agree with all your sentiments here. In the practical world, extra lights are better. And, actual trouble based on a mistaken stern light is very rare indeed. On the other hand, you admit that the scenario creates some possible issues with both the USCG and an insurance company.

All of my posts have been an attempt to answer the very first post in this thread, which was
Quote:
Can I use a stern light at anchor as long as I also show an all-round white anchor light?
We can debate all the practical and social reasons why the OP could choose to do that, or why it won't matter, or that sensible sailors wouldn't be confused - but I don't think our debate changes the wording of Rule 20:
Quote:
The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights which cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules...
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Old 11-04-2011, 16:39   #85
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Re: Stern Light at Anchor

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It would be closer to an anchor vessel of 50 meters or more showing two white lights one higher in bow nearest the rode and the other in the rear of the boat.
yet another example of how this configuration could be confused....
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Old 16-04-2011, 10:40   #86
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Re: Stern Light at Anchor

My understanding of the Colregs is that as long as a light cannot be mistaken for a specified navigation light, then it is acceptable. The Colregs also do not prohibit you from making your boat as visible as possible. And there is no regulation that states you cannot have more than 1 all around white anchor light. We've seen more and more boats anchored with more than one anchor light, for example in the rigging fore and aft where it is more visible than at the masthead. So, if you have an all around white light at the stern platform that should be just fine and will help you find your boat among many others in the anchorage. A stern light is however a nav light and would conflict, suggesting you were underway at anchor.

One cautionary note. We rarely see boats with a black ball in the fore triangle as their required day mark at anchor. This is essential. Should a collision occur, you may not be covered if you did not have that day mark up.
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Old 16-04-2011, 20:13   #87
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Re: Stern Light at Anchor

As far as having more than one 360 anchor light, some people just don't look up (the reason why people who have a tricolor masthead still burn deck level nave lights)
Though it is good to find multiple uses for items, space etc on boats....some things must remain dedicated. Navigation lights are one such thing, they are there for one purpose only following extremely old, international rules.
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Old 16-04-2011, 22:05   #88
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Re: Stern Light at Anchor

So, let me get this straight -- the sticklers are saying that the combination of a masthead 360 deg anchor lamp and the stern running light is BAD, because a vessel coming up from astern might think the vessel was under way. But the combination of a 360 deg masthead and a white light at the stern that illuminates the boarding ladder is OK? For the vessel coming up from astern, both combinations appear the same. As far as I can see, the only thing different about the pukka stern light is that if you get a bit forward of the stern of the anchored vessel, the nav light would disappear due to its cut-off angle.

The rule says that you should not exhibit a light that could be confused with a navigation light. Being that the proper stern light is simply a white light with certain angles of visibility and a certain minimum brightness, ANY white light could be misconstrued. Yet, nearly all working vessels exhibit many white lights that can be seen from astern both while under way, while fishing/trawling or at anchor.

I'm not a sea lawyer, but I can't understand the big reaction to this question.

As a cruiser who often has entered anchorages in the dark, only to find boats with no lights, boats with "garden" lights that start the night dim and go downhill from there, boats with a single masthead anchor light and boats with masthead plus other lights, my strong preference is for LOTS of lights. Once one has noticed that there is something there (probably an anchored boat), it's pretty easy to avoid it, and that is what all this anchor lighting biz is about, isn't it?

Cheers,

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Old 16-04-2011, 22:49   #89
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Re: Stern Light at Anchor

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
...........

I'm not a sea lawyer, but I can't understand the big reaction to this question.

As a cruiser who often has entered anchorages in the dark, only to find boats with no lights, boats with "garden" lights that start the night dim and go downhill from there, boats with a single masthead anchor light and boats with masthead plus other lights, my strong preference is for LOTS of lights. Once one has noticed that there is something there (probably an anchored boat), it's pretty easy to avoid it, and that is what all this anchor lighting biz is about, isn't it?

Cheers,

Jim
Well I am with Jim on this one.

And I would like to share the following snippet about lights, nights and confusion. I was entering a river mouth at night after being away cruising for about a year. I was very familiar with the entrance previously so was quite happy to approach it at night and the entrance was well lit (pre GPS days).

As we neared (say a mile or two out), I noticed a whole lot of new lights (all white) in a cluster that appeared to be high up. The best explanation in the moment was that they were new buildings that must have been constructed on the headland sometime during the 12 months I had been away. I remarked how quickly things change, go away for a year and a whole new suburb springs up.

Having identified the entrance lights, I set the autopilot and began tidying up the boat and preparing for the entrance - there was no other boats in the vicinity and I was looking forward to quiet sail into the entrance and up the river to the marina, it was one of those magic nights, quite dark, little sea and say 12 Kts of fair wind.

As I was engrossed in getting everything squared away and thinking how the previous 12 months cruise was coming to a perfect ending, I never gave the new suburb any further thought.

Then looking up again, I realized I was heading straight into the side of a large cruise liner anchored (broadside on) in front of me now about 200 yards away. This was the "new suburb" cluster of lights; panic ensured for some milliseconds before throwing the autopilot off and putting the wheel hard over.

Another lesson learned - lights are not always what they seem to be....
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Old 20-04-2011, 08:24   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
So, let me get this straight -- the sticklers are saying that the combination of a masthead 360 deg anchor lamp and the stern running light is BAD, because a vessel coming up from astern might think the vessel was under way. But the combination of a 360 deg masthead and a white light at the stern that illuminates the boarding ladder is OK? For the vessel coming up from astern, both combinations appear the same. As far as I can see, the only thing different about the pukka stern light is that if you get a bit forward of the stern of the anchored vessel, the nav light would disappear due to its cut-off angle.

The rule says that you should not exhibit a light that could be confused with a navigation light. Being that the proper stern light is simply a white light with certain angles of visibility and a certain minimum brightness, ANY white light could be misconstrued. Yet, nearly all working vessels exhibit many white lights that can be seen from astern both while under way, while fishing/trawling or at anchor.

I'm not a sea lawyer, but I can't understand the big reaction to this question.

As a cruiser who often has entered anchorages in the dark, only to find boats with no lights, boats with "garden" lights that start the night dim and go downhill from there, boats with a single masthead anchor light and boats with masthead plus other lights, my strong preference is for LOTS of lights. Once one has noticed that there is something there (probably an anchored boat), it's pretty easy to avoid it, and that is what all this anchor lighting biz is about, isn't it?

Cheers,

Jim
The original question I answered was re: lights added to stern. We do use solar lights (even west marine carries marine grade now) but when at anchor we ALSO use an anchor light. My mistake- I figured that was not needed to add in a forum of sailors -with the question of lights being Added. I'm not sure where everybody is talking about these problems but when going into a cove or anchorage at night, I Carefully look for boats and am happy for Every light. Good luck to the guy with your decision 
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