Squatter On Your Mooring Ball ( Canada )

[neilsailingrn]

I'll learn to spell on my next post! :-)

[Mike OReilly]

This thread tangent got me wondering about the law in regard to moorings. In Canada the law says individuals can set up a single mooring without any special license, as long as it complies with all the regs. (proper holding, maintenance, distance from other stuff, not in a shipping channel, etc.). Not sure about US law.

My quick search also revealed an increasing tension in some BC waters about the growing number of private moorings that are showing up in public anchorages. Apparently in some places they are becoming sufficiently numerous as to make anchoring difficult. I have no problem with private moorings for a boat's home base, but it sounds like some people are dropping moorings in popular public anchorages as a way of reserving a spot for themselves.

Problem?

[Johnny Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

This thread tangent got me wondering about the law in regard to moorings. In Canada the law says individuals can set up a single mooring without any special license, as long as it complies with all the regs. (proper holding, maintenance, distance from other stuff, not in a shipping channel, etc.). Not sure about US law.

My quick search also revealed an increasing tension in some BC waters about the growing number of private moorings that are showing up in public anchorages. Apparently in some places they are becoming sufficiently numerous as to make anchoring difficult. I have no problem with private moorings for a boat's home base, but it sounds like some people are dropping moorings in popular public anchorages as a way of reserving a spot for themselves.

Problem?

Mike would agree that is a problem. Would not allow private moorings in public moorings at all. Public moorings should be first come first serve till you leave IMHO to the public at large not those who dropped a ball into the water. But if the govt charges you for your mooring spot then the flip side of the coin is that is your spot and not a public spot. Not dropping clutter into public waters is a worthwhile idea. For example on the Lake I live on you have to get your permit from the US Corp of Engineers. Most homes on the lake do not have them as it is per number of feet of waterfront that you are taxed upon that determines if you can have or even apply for a mooring ball. Same for docks even rarer and not free due to the high property taxes that they use as their reasoning to perhaps allow. Never said it was right or fair but I play the game by the existing rules.
John

[rockbottom]

Originally Posted by HappySeagull

It's illegal to dump garbage over the side. Rusty engine blocks, blocks of concrete, whatever. It's not a vessel, it's not fishing gear, it's not on the chart or in the NOTMs. But the truth is the Mounties have better things to do and know less anyways. Maybe, the wharfinger doesn't want your mooring buoy there either, but since you are paying him his wharfage, he just hopes it all goes away.

Funny, how many of you might think anchor lights are necessary but miscellaneous ropes floating in the approaches are just fine at night.

You don't need it, but consider that you should keep the area for yourself for free. Oh, but he's a bum! I wouldn't be suprised if your plan is to sublet your dockspace and shift to the mooring when weather is salubrious. If so, I hope you declare that as rental income, as it lawfully should be.


Anyways, I'm taking some weights and chain downtown. There's some parking spaces I'd like to keep for myself. I asked the Coastguard and they said that it's fine with them!

LOL wish i could get some parking space downtown TO so easy, my bro-in-law or should it be bro-in-outlaw hit an abandoned concrete mooring block so it surprises me its legal to dump those overboard in BC still. Even non conforming docks must be removed in ontariario and only portable removable docks allowed noawdays. Those abandoned stone dock cribs barely under water are waterskier hazards and serious powerboat bottomend removers at night. But of course sailors have no mercy for jet-skies and powerboats noise. Beware of breaking the serious pollution laws of the "federal dept of oceans and fisheries" by sinking seacraft .Bolt cutters to "loose" it towards the rocks if chained is a solution but i would just pay him to leave. There is no such thing as an unregistered cell phone in canada unless he/she used false?/anothers ID/credit card. By law all # can be traced to personal/business name unless foreigner using clone phone from elsewhere so RCMP can get you name if you simply lie and say you got crank call. I would just post a note offering some cash or leave a message if possible to avoid hassles especially if you have nice uninsured boat as many do.Just sinking or cutting loose his craft is irresponsible to your neighbours and illegal .The fines are huge as 25k or 500k if corporation found guilty. Some of these posters should read those pollution laws of canada and how they seize all your assets till the court rules. Toxic waste or not and every "tom,dick and hairy has a cellphone with free 911" . There are more civilian informers on the payroll of crimestoppers in canada than the old "redbook" of communist china. Dont forget the planes above flying circles for airtime accumulation soas to get commercial aircraft licenses. Caveot Emptor.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by HappySeagull

....I'd like to know why throwing your garbage in the water, tied to a buoy, makes the area your private property. Sorry, but You are the one dumping trash. If that fellow wants to anchor there, he has every right to do so. When your boat is tied to it, your garbage is an anchor holding a vessel, but as soon as you leave it, you can't expect anybody coming in to treat it as though it's a ghost-boat. ....there wouldn't be anywhere to anchor whatso-ever if that were the case. If I were there, I would tie up to it and were you to come-by, I'd ask you to remove it, so I can anchor, without fouling your underwater trash.

Interesting that a very similar argument was made elsewhere. If you really feel this strongly you should try to change the laws of your country, which currently allow moorings.

Garbage Moorings..?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Johnny Cruiser

Mike would agree that is a problem. Would not allow private moorings in public moorings at all. ... Never said it was right or fair but I play the game by the existing rules.

Hi John, I didn't mean my post to suggest you were doing anything nefarious. Clearly you were following the rules. In Canada the rules say that you can drop a mooring for individual use, as long as it complies with a long list of safety concerns (a la rockbottom's issues). It appears they can be dropped in any public space (equivalent to Crown Land on the water I guess), barring certain special circumstances such as Vancouver's False Creek ordinances.

Clearly this isn't a problem as long as the numbers are small. But, from my quick search, it appears the numbers are starting to make transient anchoring difficult in some areas of BC. Gulf Islands and Desolation Sound come up.

If people started dropping moorings in my cruising area (Lake Superior north shore) there are some popular anchorages that would quickly become impossible to anchor in. Luckily people have more common sense (and community sense) to do that here -- at least so far. But it seems like legally speaking, they could.

[stevensc]

Sounds like the authorities are pretty spineless, you pay for a mooring and they can't take action against a trespasser!
Good luck with your situation, it must be very frustrating.
Steve W

[Celestialsailor]

Lets keep the political opinions out of this thread shall we?

[rockbottom]

Originally Posted by neilsailingrn

There is lies the bottom line! No pun intended!

Sounds like an HA member on his way to church. My 1% says sue the rich as the wiseguy with the 100k boat aint sueproof. As for numbered trusts, corps etc and all that jazz it really has nothing to do with the OP dealing with someone poor who if on disability or welfare cant even have their cheque garnishied if you manage to get an OJ Simpson multi-million civil judgement in canada the "bum" still gets his govt cheque. And perhaps he is just a mentally ill guy who got sick in prison taking the rap for some BC bikers. The only thing hes got to lose is his freedom and the bigshot hassling him gets the "sope" thistime. Ever see the movie "Capefear".So some rich guy sues some rich idiot who freaks out in small claims court, so what, beware the guy who dont even bother going to small claims court because he dont care about judgements he cant be arrested for while he plots how to cost the "plaintiff" alot of grief.Play by the rules in BC cause there is no "Bosshog" in this hazard county but alot of maniacs rioting in the streets and killing eachother on 1000$ drug deals. Asian triads run BC not the HA.

[Johnny Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Hi John, I didn't mean my post to suggest you were doing anything nefarious. Clearly you were following the rules. In Canada the rules say that you can drop a mooring for individual use, as long as it complies with a long list of safety concerns (a la rockbottom's issues). It appears they can be dropped in any public space (equivalent to Crown Land on the water I guess), barring certain special circumstances such as Vancouver's False Creek ordinances.

Clearly this isn't a problem as long as the numbers are small. But, from my quick search, it appears the numbers are starting to make transient anchoring difficult in some areas of BC. Gulf Islands and Desolation Sound come up.

If people started dropping moorings in my cruising area (Lake Superior north shore) there are some popular anchorages that would quickly become impossible to anchor in. Luckily people have more common sense (and community sense) to do that here -- at least so far. But it seems like legally speaking, they could.

Mike,
Did not take it that way. Was referring to situation we have here where if you don't own 200' of waterfront property you can't have a mooring ball but you can use one of the few Marina's or anchor out as long as greater than 100 ft from someone else's mooring ball. Kinda highlights the problem between waterfront owners paying for the view and cruisers strictly based on their taxes IMHO.
Have been up to Thunder Bay 70/75 times on inspections and scuba trips. Dry suit time up their compared to Lake Michigan/Chicago. Nice place to live IMHO.
Did not realize you could just drop private moorings almost anywhere you wanted within certain limits. Thanks for the info.
John

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

WOW you don't sound like a happy anything! Please post your boat's name and some pictures of it and you. I feel people need to be on the lookout for you.

No kidding !
We need to know where NOT to be when you're where you are...

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

Please let us know how that works out for you!

I bet you feel it is wrong for people to own their own homes on land that should be for everyone. "Hey no one is home over there that means it is OK for us to go crash there!"

And the "occupy" people are just Great Americans too...

[Capt Phil]

Glad I posted a 'blast from the past' and that a few agreed that sometimes it is more efficient to take matters into ones own hands. Frankly, I'm surprised that my comment didn't attract more negative responses. Why do we all wait for/expect someone in authority to solve our problems? We are mariners for God's sake. Self reliant, inventive, individualistic, a little opinionated and generally able to look after ourselves and proud of it. I hope things have not changed so much that we are losing our ability to look after ourselves and our own problems.
Sorry for the rant but in the old days we solved our own and other folks problems with a minimum of help or fuss.
Must be the water we drink today or something... Capt Phil

[HappySeagull]

Originally Posted by Canibul

I used to have that SAD disorder myself. Took years to realize it. Must be pretty common in Canada.

I'm interested in a debate of better quality than this. Your medical history is off-topic,but I venture that heat stroke is worse, if that's a comfort to you.
Moorings in Canada are not real estate in the true sense. There are many, many, derelict moorings. People put them down, but seldom maintain them. They sink to the bottom, when the owner moves on to a new interest. The owner retains responsibility, for their property ,but they can't be found...
I'm suprised at the antagonism I read here.Were I to sneak out to your boat and sink it or tow it or otherwise mess with it, you would be angry I think. But several have suggested this to be inflicted on someone else's boat with no obvious humour to mitigate their posts. Now, That's " SAD".

[xymotic]

Originally Posted by Johnny Cruiser

As I just won a case

Great story, good for you!

I do have a question though, how did you go from hull number to finding the guy's address? Did you just have the sheriff serve them and say you didn't know the extra info?