Soft shackles in anchoring system

[nfbr]

Possible locations for soft shackles (Catamaran)

Bridle to Bow Padeye
Bridle to Mantus Hook
Bridle to Prussik Loop (for rope rodes)
Joining eyes of Rope Rode
Rope Rode to Chain
Chain to Anchor (too sharp edge / chafe likely)

Has anyone used any of these with a soft shackle?
Has anyone seen or heard of one failing, maybe from movement?

Yes, I know, steel is best. Irresponsible etc.

Paul

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by nfbr

Possible locations for soft shackles (Catamaran)



Bridle to Bow Padeye

Bridle to Mantus Hook

Bridle to Prussik Loop (for rope rodes)

Joining eyes of Rope Rode

Rope Rode to Chain

Chain to Anchor (too sharp edge / chafe likely)



Has anyone used any of these with a soft shackle?

Has anyone seen or heard of one failing, maybe from movement?



Yes, I know, steel is best. Irresponsible etc.



Paul

Haven’t heard of any soft shackle failures, but that doesn’t mean much. One good thing about soft shackles is that they show wear and can be retired before failure with simple inspection. Nothing irresponsible about using soft shackles instead of hard, as long as they’re used in appropriate situations. Repeated movement over sharp or small diameter edges is not appropriate.

Bridle to Bow Padeye - sure. On our cat we use hard shackles to connect the eye splices to their respective pad eyes. Using soft shackles would save a bit of weight in our bows and worth considering - I do love getting rid of hard shackles wherever I can, but inertia has stopped me from swapping them out so far.

Bridle to Mantus hook - no, edges too sharp for soft shackles unless you soft shackle through the hard shackle on the hook. But then why bother?

Bridle to prussic loop and joining eyes of rope rode - yes

Rope rode to chain - no, won’t pass through a gypsy. Even if you don’t use a windlass, why not use a splice to attach the rode to the chain directly? Fewer individual components are better.

Chain to anchor - no, high chafe location definitely not suitable for fibre.

We do use a soft shackle together with a Dyneema loop to connect our bridles to the chain. We use the loop through the chain as the soft shackle is a very tight fit in the chain and the soft shackle chafes a bit on the galvanising, while the webbing loop seems more chafe resistant.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by nfbr

Possible locations for soft shackles (Catamaran)

Bridle to Bow Padeye
Bridle to Mantus Hook
Bridle to Prussik Loop (for rope rodes)
Joining eyes of Rope Rode
Rope Rode to Chain
Chain to Anchor (too sharp edge / chafe likely)

Has anyone used any of these with a soft shackle?
Has anyone seen or heard of one failing, maybe from movement?

Yes, I know, steel is best. Irresponsible etc.

Paul

I use Bridle to Bow Padeyes


To attache the bridle to the chain I use something like the following doubled over:



https://www.adventurebase.com.au/tra...ma-loop-slings

[Seaworthy Lass]

We have a monohull, not a cat, but several of the anchoring and snubber characteristics are similar.

In our case:

- No soft shackles are used anywhere in the boat to anchor run.

- Soft shackles are used for all connections in the boat to snubber to chain run (we attach the snubber directly to the chain without a hook).

This system has now been used for around seven years of full time cruising at anchor without any problems (including winters when frequent gales and storms are experienced).

As Fxykty said, chafe is very easy to inspect for. I replace the snubber to chain soft shackle routinely about once a year. It has started to look a little “fluffy” at this stage.

SWL

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by nfbr

Possible locations for soft shackles (Catamaran)

Bridle to Bow Padeye
Bridle to Mantus Hook
Bridle to Prussik Loop (for rope rodes)
Joining eyes of Rope Rode
Rope Rode to Chain
Chain to Anchor (too sharp edge / chafe likely)

Has anyone used any of these with a soft shackle?
Has anyone seen or heard of one failing, maybe from movement?

Yes, I know, steel is best. Irresponsible etc.

Paul

I used to think steel is best too.

Until last year when I bent a chain hook. It was Covid times so I found out in a thread here a good number of people do the bridle to chain attachment with a sort of rolling hitch, as attached.

It held through a tropical storm last spring and I used it all summer. Didn’t even chafe all summer. Was at anchor every day and night. I was amazed.

[hpeer]

Last February I had a wired shackle work its way loose and come undone in a storm in a tight anchorage. As it was I knew instantly as I was on deck when it popped, we started the engine and set the back up anchor and retrieved my main anchor the next day.

Obviously the failure here was how and why the wire came undone, and I think I have sorted that out. BUT in the meantime I have put a soft shackle between the rope and anchor IN ADDITION TO the (now new and improved) hard shackle. This is meant merely to be a back up until I can prove out my new system.

So while not a permanent part if the system I do have one, at least for the time being. I have not used it yet other than to secure the chain to anchor the while swapping out shackles. I have had it run through the bow roller a few times, not under load, as I have had to drop the anchor in the hard to do work.

[kirklkjb]

Using a soft shackle or even lashings as a backup in case of failure never hurts. I would not be comfortable with a soft shackle on an anchor due to all the issues already identified. It is common practice when sailing or racing in high wind to use lashings or a soft shackle through the block to prevent a block from becoming a missile when the tang fails. Especially for blocks that turn a line at a steep angle. Such as the spinnaker sheets. Modern blocks have openings in the center to run the preventer line through them without fouling the block.

[EmeraldCoastSailor]

A few years ago, I switched from chain hook to a soft shackle for snubber to anchor chain attachment. I am concerned about chafe but feel inspection at each use is good insurance. I use double snubbers for storms. For really big storms I will likely add a third snubber hitched to chain the old fashioned way. I haven't had to do this since Hurricane Michael when I had four snubbers in use and one hitch failed.

[doublewide]

For several years, on our catamaran, we have connected bow pad eyes to bridles with soft shackles. Then, after setting the anchor, we bend a Dyneema Prusik onto the anchor chain (around the whole chain, not through a link) and connect the bridles to the Prusik (and thus to the chain) with another soft shackle. We let out enough scope to put the bridles under tension and to have a little catenary in the chain, and Bob's your uncle. Our shackles and Prusik are over-sized, much stronger than the anchor chain. This is a very quick and secure system. Chafe has not been a problem.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by nfbr

Possible locations for soft shackles (Catamaran)

Bridle to Bow Padeye
Bridle to Mantus Hook
Bridle to Prussik Loop (for rope rodes)
Joining eyes of Rope Rode
Rope Rode to Chain
Chain to Anchor (too sharp edge / chafe likely)

Has anyone used any of these with a soft shackle?
Has anyone seen or heard of one failing, maybe from movement?

Yes, I know, steel is best. Irresponsible etc.

Paul

Obviously, some of these don't require any shackle.


Cow hitch bridle to bow eyes
Splice rope to chain




Yes, chain-to-anchor is asking for trouble. Not only is the bottom full of rocks, the anchor itself is typically very rough. Finally,this connection can experience a LOT of high tension movement, which means chafe. The chain-to-snubber joint, for example, does not see much movement, because the chain absorbes the flex.

[Chris Cringle]

nfbr: Okay captain, it is 03:00 hours, the wind has shifted and now you are on a lee shore. The wind has freshened to gale force and is increasing. You have soft "shackles" connecting your fiber rode to your chain and your chain to your anchor 250 feet from your bow and 40 feet under water. How well do you sleep? Would you sleep better with high quality steel shackles? Always remember when you have these "modern" ideas: YOU BET YOUR BOAT!

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Chris Cringle

nfbr: Okay captain, it is 03:00 hours, the wind has shifted and now you are on a lee shore. The wind has freshened to gale force and is increasing. You have soft "shackles" connecting your fiber rode to your chain and your chain to your anchor 250 feet from your bow and 40 feet under water. How well do you sleep? Would you sleep better with high quality steel shackles? Always remember when you have these "modern" ideas: YOU BET YOUR BOAT!

If I used high quality steel shackles it would have a far lower breaking load than the soft shackle we currently use on our "storm" snubber

The chain link hole is the limiting factor on size of shackle used and on 13mm chain that's around 9mm.
4.5. Tonne breaking load for metal shackle vs 7.5 tonne for dyneema

[nfbr]

Originally Posted by Chris Cringle

nfbr: Okay captain, it is 03:00 hours, the wind has shifted and now you are on a lee shore. The wind has freshened to gale force and is increasing. You have soft "shackles" connecting your fiber rode to your chain and your chain to your anchor 250 feet from your bow and 40 feet under water. How well do you sleep? Would you sleep better with high quality steel shackles? Always remember when you have these "modern" ideas: YOU BET YOUR BOAT!

Sitting behind stainless chain, stainless shackles and a bottom that is not "engineered".
I can see arguments both ways.

[Seman]

On my cat I have bridle to pad eye soft shackles.
If anybody drags towards us it should be easier to disconnect the soft shackle than tying to find a shifter to disconnect the SS shackle or cut the bridle.
Just take the tension off the bridle and open the soft shackles instead of having to move forward 25-30 feet to disconnect the chain hook and let more chain out.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Seman

On my cat I have bridle to pad eye soft shackles.

If anybody drags towards us it should be easier to disconnect the soft shackle than tying to find a shifter to disconnect the SS shackle or cut the bridle.

Just take the tension off the bridle and open the soft shackles instead of having to move forward 25-30 feet to disconnect the chain hook and let more chain out.

We had a recent situation where a whole raft of debris piled up on our bridle lines and chain while anchored in a river that started flooding. Both bridle lines were bar tight from the load and even had we had soft shackles connecting the bridles to the pad eyes (we have hard shackles there now), there was no way to slacken them so as to remove the shackles. A knife did the trick very quickly (3 strand nylon).

That said, I will be removing the hard shackles and replacing with soft - less weight and no pin rubbing against the hull.