Soft shackles and tight radius failure

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

."

I wouldn't use the inner core from any rope for more than a year -- it's just not capable of putting up with UV, it's not designed to.

Possibly.
I did ask a major rope supplier who's rope it was if it would be OK to strip off the outer case and have rope exposed to sun and they said yes.

The stuff you make soft shackles with is UV treated. It's also usually not 15 years old when you start using it.

15 years in storage.
Does spectra rot or go off when not in use?

Was it really 8mm? The inside of a 10mm halyard isn't usually 8mm it's more like 5-6mm.

Its thicker than the blue 6mm dyneema that came with the winches.
They were to short which is why I bought this other rope into play.

And even if it was only 5 or 6 mm, that's 3000+ kg rope to lift a 300kg tender. 10:1 safety factor.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

And I only very recently starting using a soft shackle on my storm snubber to chain connection so am understandably, in my eyes, now a bit uneasy about it.

I would not be concerned.

We have broken several snubbers, but never a soft shackle. This is consistent with the theoretical difference in strength that indicates the snubber is the weaker link of the pair.

The soft shackles do suffer some abrasion from the rough galvanising of the chain. This is only slow, but if our results are typical, then budget on replacing about every 400 nights at anchor to be on the safe side. (See photo).

[Mike Banks]

I would NEVER use a soft shackle for anchoring. Their advantage is lightness. Things that flt around in the wind or are fastened to sails and rigging are places to use soft shackles. There are surge loads and abrasion associated with anchoring--and it makes no sense to put a potential weak link into a steel chain, no matter for how long you have gotten away with doing it.

It would be interesting to know what insurance companies would say about the use of soft shackles in anchoring. I think they may discourage it.

[hpeer]

I had a shackle pin come undone a few weeks ago. And I had replaced the shackle wire in November. I have no idea why the pin backed out but it did. I found it laying next to the anchor shaft so it’s clear it did not fail, it backed out.

So how do you prevent that? Maybe a soft shackle between the anchor and the chain as a back up attachment? I’m thinking about it, hard to see a downside.

[johnn33]

Hi


Does one assume shackles are no longer moused?
John

[hpeer]

The shackle WAS moused. That’s the pisser. For some reason it failed anyway.

Back to the topic, no one really knows why the rope broke in the previous thread. It has been postulated that it broke where it went through a clutch. Someone else noted a similar failure.

There is no evidence it was UV degradation because if it was it would be over a longer piece and it would also be very atypical of the material make up. Other than crushing in a clutch the other possibility is a manufacturing error.

How small a radius is a very valid question. Also how smooth, are there sharp edges?

[Mike Banks]

There are special anchor shackles made which allow the pin to be locked in place using a castellated nut, but mine are just ordinary Sheridized steel, nitrogen brushed and I lock the pin in place using Araldite or special thread locking compound--and then I mouse the shackle as well using stainless steel wire bought for the purpose. I have never had one come adrift or even loosen. If you are worried about the mousing wire wearing through--put a large flat washer on the pin so that the anchor shaft does not rub directly on your mousing wire. The anchor shaft should not be too tight on the shackle pin or it will undo your shackle.

I have even heard of the use of solder in the threads of a shackle pin. If you are going to try that one, tin the threads first, brush the tinned threads on the pin free of excess solder using a file cleaner, then flux the threads with tallow, screw the pin into the shackle, it will be a little tighter, and when it is firmly in position, heat the shackle and pin threads and run a little electrical resin cored solder into the end. That pin is NOT coming out unless you heat the shackle again.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by EmeraldCoastSailor

Did the soft shackle chafe the braid?

No. The brait 8 plait broke a few feet up from the splice.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by Paul L

No. The brait 8 plait broke a few feet up from the splice.

Was that at the end of the tail bury? If the tail is not tapered properly, you will get breakage at that point. According to a well trained rigger that i know.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by hpeer

The shackle WAS moused. That’s the pisser. For some reason it failed anyway.

We had a anchor shackle undo itself
Lifted anchor one day after being down for a week or two and luckily noticed the pin sticking out with only a few threads left and 150lb anchor hanging from it.

Shackle had been loctited and wire moused by me several months earlier.

Replaced it with one of these and no problems since.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Was that at the end of the tail bury? If the tail is not tapered properly, you will get breakage at that point. According to a well trained rigger that i know.

Nope, well away from the taper. The point was that the snubbed failed long before the soft shackle

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

I would NEVER use a soft shackle for anchoring. Their advantage is lightness. Things that flt around in the wind or are fastened to sails and rigging are places to use soft shackles. There are surge loads and abrasion associated with anchoring--and it makes no sense to put a potential weak link into a steel chain, no matter for how long you have gotten away with doing it.

It would be interesting to know what insurance companies would say about the use of soft shackles in anchoring. I think they may discourage it.

It's on the snubbed and far less likely to fail than the snubber rope. I have more than a thousand nights at anchor using a soft shackle to attach the snubber. Of all the items I worry about while anchoring, the shackle isn't one of them. It is stronger than the chain, more chafe resistant than the snubber and is not catastrophic if it fails.