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Old 04-11-2012, 01:35   #91
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Re: Sarca Excel

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
It's not even particularly lucky that many people, even circumnavigating cruisers, do not see over 40 knots at sea or at anchor. It's simply statistics. Others see "survival storms" on a more regular basis, of course, but that's related to the places they choose to sail.
.
I wish the winds around here would listen to you
This is the forecast for Thursday.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:19   #92
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Re: Sarca Excel

Jonathan, good and experienced points all. I believe that while it would be difficult to be "overanchored" (what a great term to use at the bar!), I also believe that if you have found your choice sufficient, I have to go with the individual skipper's experience and not some idealized table of suggested anchor sizings.

I also have a Fortress (an FX-23) that I am using on a 10 metre/4 tonne sloop right now as a primary, and which will be a "lunch hook"/secondary on a more massive 12 metre/16 tonner. The point of the Fortress is well-deployed area and very good penetration, as you know. But your mention of your extensive preparation to back up the trustworthy primary tells me that you simply know how to anchor, period, and perhaps others do not.

Your choice to haul up and leave after two yachts dragged nearby is informative: despite having confidence in the tenacity of your own anchor's set, you prudently decided to clear out before the anchorage became untenable or other boats could drag down on your cat.

So a part of knowing how to anchor is knowing when to stop anchoring. In this respect, it is close to the old adage "if you think you need to put in a reef, put in a reef".
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:25   #93
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Re: Sarca Excel

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I wish the winds around here would listen to you
This is the forecast for Thursday.
And where is this, and do you have a wind generator?
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Old 04-11-2012, 14:31   #94
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Re: Sarca Excel

Alchemy,

I have to disagree - when its time to put in one reef,

Put in two!

I confess we sail short handed, just the 2 of us, and if we had a bunch of gorillas on board we would go the one reef at a time. But we seldom use the first reef anymore and invariably go for reef 2. Its all single line reefing, the main halyard is marked, its all done from the comfort of the cockpit so we have no need in winter to even change from our sheepskin boot/slippers - quite civilised really.

Our experiance with anchoring our cat is different to most, other multis. We like to keep away from the shore (where other multis might congregate). We find than the waves are steeper and if you have judged it wrongly you can end up near the break line (which makes it noisy).

The Fortress is another of those anchors that if its been well set by the conditions it needs patience to break out. There is an article in YM on kedges (and Fortress gets a mention). They seem to imply you can break them out from an inflatable - they obviously have never been in any sort of breeze. Its a superlative anchor, sets well even in light weed (though one man's light weed might be another mans cricket ground), set very quickly and being flat is easy to store. We keep ours assembled and store is 'vertically', crown at the top, in our bridge deck locker under the mast (along with the windlass). Being light its easy to deploy from a dinghy. I'm not sure why more people do not use them. Our alloy Excel has many of the same attributes, but I like the idea of having more than one 'style' - and the alloy Excel, like most spare anchors, is not so easy to store.

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Old 04-11-2012, 15:18   #95
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Re: Sarca Excel

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Alchemy,

I have to disagree - when its time to put in one reef,

Put in two!
All depends on the boat and reef points doesn't it.

First reef point on my last boat was probably a 12 to 15 knot pt. bringing the fractional rig down to masthead.
Reef pt. 2 was for approx 25 to 35 knots.
If I put this in at 12 to 15 I would have been drastically underpowered.
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Old 04-11-2012, 15:54   #96
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Re: Sarca Excel

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Alchemy,

I have to disagree - when its time to put in one reef,

Put in two!

I won't argue with any approach that increases peace of mind.

I confess we sail short handed, just the 2 of us, and if we had a bunch of gorillas on board we would go the one reef at a time. But we seldom use the first reef anymore and invariably go for reef 2. Its all single line reefing, the main halyard is marked, its all done from the comfort of the cockpit so we have no need in winter to even change from our sheepskin boot/slippers - quite civilised really.

Our experiance with anchoring our cat is different to most, other multis. We like to keep away from the shore (where other multis might congregate). We find than the waves are steeper and if you have judged it wrongly you can end up near the break line (which makes it noisy).

Agreed. There's a tendency for people to cluster in some places, which can make me wary should the weather go pear-shaped.

The Fortress is another of those anchors that if its been well set by the conditions it needs patience to break out. There is an article in YM on kedges (and Fortress gets a mention). They seem to imply you can break them out from an inflatable - they obviously have never been in any sort of breeze. Its a superlative anchor, sets well even in light weed (though one man's light weed might be another mans cricket ground), set very quickly and being flat is easy to store. We keep ours assembled and store is 'vertically', crown at the top, in our bridge deck locker under the mast (along with the windlass). Being light its easy to deploy from a dinghy. I'm not sure why more people do not use them. Our alloy Excel has many of the same attributes, but I like the idea of having more than one 'style' - and the alloy Excel, like most spare anchors, is not so easy to store.
I break mine out by hand usually with the assistance of shortening the scope first and then drifting down on it in neutral. The boat's inertia will free it.

Harder to do in a dinghy, admittedly.

I will check out the alloy Excel, but my steel cutter is a very different boat and I have no objections to carrying the steel Excel. Haven't made up my mind between the Excel (which would have to be imported) and the Manson line.
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Old 04-11-2012, 16:02   #97
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Re: Sarca Excel

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And where is this, and do you have a wind generator?
Paros in the Cyclades, we are sailing there tomorrow. I now feel a bit of a fraud because the forecast has been reduced to a 25k northerly. Yesterday they were forecasting a 30k southerly

Sometimes they should just say and make up your own mind.

No wind generator unfortunately.
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:06   #98
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Re: Sarca Excel

Noelex 77, if you are working in the nether regions of the world, sometimes called 'the lucky country' then a wind gen is the best thing, after a decent anchor, than real beer though they work better as water generators (than wind gens). It is also refreshing (and even more -reassuring) - that your forecasts are no better than ours.

And - Cat Man Do, I agree - but most people - and we are guilty, as charged - I know reef too late (and admit it after the event).

One of the current advantages of 'the lucky country' is that the nether regions appear to have picked up one thread (or a number of threads - if you include NZ in the nether regions) of the mantle of anchor development. All anchors are a compromise, some more, or less, than others. If you find Anchor Right or Manson difficult to accept commercially (but desire them technically) then I might suggest you contact Ned Wood (at Manson) or Rex Francis (at Anchor Right) directly. You might find either sympathetic and either might make those compromises more acceptable to you. If you do not ask - you will never know.

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Old 05-11-2012, 08:06   #99
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Re: Sarca Excel

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Paros in the Cyclades, we are sailing there tomorrow. I now feel a bit of a fraud because the forecast has been reduced to a 25k northerly. Yesterday they were forecasting a 30k southerly

Sometimes they should just say and make up your own mind.

No wind generator unfortunately.
A fellow whose blog I read spent time in the last couple of months in Greece. He finds some of the fuelling practices quaint.

He mentioned that hatfuls of wind that clock 180 degrees from the forecast was fairly typical as well. Good luck with that. Do you have a Sarca?
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:09   #100
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Re: Sarca Excel

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One of the current advantages of 'the lucky country' is that the nether regions appear to have picked up one thread (or a number of threads - if you include NZ in the nether regions) of the mantle of anchor development. All anchors are a compromise, some more, or less, than others. If you find Anchor Right or Manson difficult to accept commercially (but desire them technically) then I might suggest you contact Ned Wood (at Manson) or Rex Francis (at Anchor Right) directly. You might find either sympathetic and either might make those compromises more acceptable to you. If you do not ask - you will never know.

Jonathan
I have heard that Rex picks up his own phone. On the Sarca videos, he sounds a bit like a cleaned-up "Chopper" Read.
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Old 06-11-2012, 00:26   #101
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Re: Sarca Excel

Hi S/V Alchemy,

Rex hear from Anchor Right Australia, I brows these forums from time to but rarely comment unless invited, your forums are a great way to discuss, pass on information and extremely informative to the apprentice Yachters, It’s just not the place for manufactures to peddle their product and certainly not the place for any manufacturer taking an advantage to bag another brand.

If you go back a couple of years your forums were ambushed by a certain manufacturer that ruffled a few feathers. Chopper read ay Alchemy, a cleaned up version? You have got me there, not sure what you mean but most definitely if you want to ring I am more than pleased to chat with anyone, and don’t worry I am not a cleaned up version of chopper read?

Below is a reply to GregKutsen Page 4 of this thread, my comments to his entry are for the benefit of your forum to have the facts.


Hi Greg

The right of reply, lets nip this in the bud, mate this is not the place to take shots at your opposition, comment, explain why you believe you have the better anchor and leave Anchor Right Australia out of it.

Quote:
GregKutsen
Re: Sarca Excel

Guys, Super Sarca was tested in 2006 Sail Magazine Anchor Test, I will let you be the judge:

http://content.westmarine.com/docume...chor-Tests.pdf

Greg
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Reply from Rex.

Greg as you do know when this test was done it was applied to the very early Sarca anchor Manufactured in N.Z. not Australia, at the time it was only rated with high holding power, It did extremely well as the outcome was a consistent performer and that if any anchor came close to the best all round anchor the Sarca came close.


Quote:
GregKutsen,

Re: Sarca Excel

Oh of-course, I am aware, nExcel might be a great piece of gear... but so far there is little reason to believe that its not just a pretty Delta
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Reply from Rex.

Just a pretty Delta? if you keep putting hand in the door jamb sooner or later you will have bruised fingers, I thank all of the guys on this forum for their comments Re the Excel and the Super Sarca, these are the real tests Greg, what your customers find themselves when deploying the anchor in question in real life situations.
Quote:
(Quote from Greg)

The reason I brought up the test is...: AnchorRight spent much time on their videos convincing folks that Super Sarca was better than Rocna and Manson but when tested by others the results were not duplicated. This could be the same situation...
Reply from Rex.

Greg you are so wrong again, (THE VIDEOS) we never did a video against our competitors with the original Sarca anchors deployed in the West Marine test.

Note;

All testing in our videos against our competitors was carried out deploying the much redeveloped NEW Super Sarca, Super High Holding power version and the new Excel.
Sorry about that guys but I felt for all it is important to get the facts strait.

My take on all anchor designs are this, there anchor designs and there are better anchor designs and of course I believe the Anchor Right Australia’s designs are as good as if not better than you will get.

In saying that there is no perfect anchor, I have been designing and developing anchors for over twenty years, all anchors are a compromise; certainly our designs will work in many types of substrate, not all, if someone makes a statement that their design will work in all substrates is not only a dangerous statement, but totally untrue.

Regards To all.

Rex Francis.
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:51   #102
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Re: Sarca Excel

I dont know where that Chopper Reid comment came from,
I have been up to Avonsleigh and spoken to Rex and his wife, I found them to be down to earth people and honest about their anchors,
He lives about 10 miles from my home on the north end of the Dandenongs,
Rex even showed me a video of the anchor tests before they had been published, which I didnt mention as Rex asked me not too before they had been released to the public,

When my Gemini is back in the water, It will be carrying two of Rex's anchors, one for the front and one for the back,

Cheers,
Brian,
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Old 06-11-2012, 03:17   #103
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Re: Sarca Excel

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
I have heard that Rex picks up his own phone. On the Sarca videos, he sounds a bit like a cleaned-up "Chopper" Read.

If we need to choose our anchors on a desire for a facade of telephonists, PAs and secretaries or the intonations on a video then things have gone way downhill.


I had need to look up Chopper Read (Wikepedia) - and was none the wiser?


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Old 06-11-2012, 19:25   #104
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Re: Sarca Excel

Alchemy,

No problems!

Jonathan
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Old 10-11-2012, 13:42   #105
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Re: Sarca Excel

I imported a batch of Sarca Excel anchors into the Uk last year (with a lot of help from Rex who I had never heard of previously) on behalf of an interested group on the Yachting Monthly forum. These anchors out perform anything I have had previously and certainly in mud and sand seem to be as solid as a permanent mooring. A little more difficult to get out but perfectly manageable and reassuring. From my own perspective sailing in Northern Scotland in a 40ft 10 tonne boat, I would say that the weak link, if there is one on my anchoring system, is no longer the holding power of the anchor but is the strength of the chain etc.
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