"Sailing" on the hook

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by hamburking

I've had the same problem. I drop a second anchor off the bow, forming a V. Then the boat stays rock steady. This also spreads the load. And if one anchor breaks out, you still have one. I have weathered many a storm with 2 anchors V'ed out the bow. I carry 2 identical bruce anchors for this purpose.

This works like a charm in very strong winds. The second anchor can even be out nearer 90 degrees. I'd rather have just one big anchor most of the time, but if its blowing real hard two anchors are better.

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Sailing back and forth at anchor is not a big deal, all boats do it to some extent. It doesn't mean anything.

It is a big deal, Sailing at anchor significantly increases anchor loads, so anything you can do to reduce it makes a huge difference in a real blow.

[peter57]

Originally Posted by briblack

Our boat (46' center cockpit cutter), like almost all, seems to tack back and forth while anchored from the bow. back and forth, 30 to 40 degrees each way. it's uncomfortable, and it seems like it would greatly increase load on the ground tackle, and chafe. a riding sail is an idea to reduce this, but I very rarely see anyone trying to use one. other ideas?

Yes, sailing around the anchor is a pain and not a good thing, caused by wind against tide. I hope you do not have a silly anchoring set (that is big anchor small chain as this exacerbates this) and you boat definitely does not sound like a racing boat.

Your boat seems large enough to carry 1/2" chain which helps in cocking the boat to the wind as the boat is acting like a sail, with a second snubber 20 to 30 feet further down the anchor chain but back to your cockpit sailing winches through a fair lead or not is debatable, This will definitely stop your sailing around the anchor with a bit of trimming.

Keep on sailing,
Peter.

[FSMike]

Originally Posted by peter57

-----
I hope you do not have a silly anchoring set (that is big anchor small chain as this exacerbates this) -----

I'm curious. Why do you think a big anchor and small chain is "silly"?

Is a small anchor and large chain better?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by reed1v

That is false. Anchor off the stern on a fin keeled boat will make it lay steady to the wind. Did that with a Ranger 26 and a Yamaha 33. Worked like a charm. Not for storm anchoring but otherwise good technique. You will get the slapping noise of waves hitting the stern. Good method in a tight mooring field since the boat will not wander and super easy to raise anchor, set sail, and sail out of the mooring field.

Nay, Boss: look again at my post vs. Uncivilised's. I was not talking about an anchor set off the stern.

I bet you are 100% correct in what you are saying.

Cheers,
b.

[SimcoeSailor]

I just had to chip in because this has been a concern for me as well that I've recently fixed. My CS30 loves to ride at anchor. Last year she rode at anchor so well that at one windy anchorage (+20 Kn) in a otherwise sheltered location she dragged anchor with a 19:1 scope. I was using a 30 pound CQR with 50 feet of chain and 200 feet of 5/8 rode. We could not stay in the sheltered cove and had to dash through some very lumpy conditions to safety a couple of miles away. It was a hairy ride and one I swore I would not repeat. I agree that I have not seen many boats with anchor riding sails, and I'm not sure why. I did some research, upgraded my anchor to an appropriately sized Rocna and added a FinDelta Anchor Riding Sail from Banner Bay Marine. Disclaimer: I have no connection to either company other then buying their products. In a nutshell, it works like a charm. The bow stays pinned to the wind and drag is always in line with the anchor. The other alternative is stern anchoring, but I would only do it in light conditions because the constant wave slap on the stern would keep me up all night.

[sy_gilana]

We have a center cockpit cutter rigged ketch. We dont sail around at anchor.
It has a lot to do with draft (draught for Englismen)

We draw 8'6" or 2.6m. I also think that a fine entry and more windage aft helps, as does a 7' full skegged rudder that is at the stern.

So to the OP, You can do some things to reduce it, but there are too many factors, some boats do, some don't. Whatever you do, make sure it does not compromise safety, like getting underway in a hurry.

I have noticed motor vessels do it more, and Hunters too...

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

More and heavier chain, deeper anchorage, remove windage fore, add windage aft, etc.

b.

^^ Dinghy on foredeck? I notice that on many boats that zig.

Cats with long bridles don't sail (we do move with wind shifts). However, if I shorten the bridle it starts to zig a little.

[GILow]

With all this crap on the back, we don't sail at anchor at all!

[peter57]

Originally Posted by FSMike

I'm curious. Why do you think a big anchor and small chain is "silly"?

Is a small anchor and large chain better?

Catenary. Heavier chain, better the catenary.

Keep on sailing,
Peter.

[peter57]

Originally Posted by GILow

With all this crap on the back, we don't sail at anchor at all!

Your Swanny will sail on the anchor in a channel or river with strong wind against tide, but not as bad as a long keeler. Cruised in company with one in the late eighties, with more crap on the stern and danced together in a few anchorages until I learnt how to cock the boat to the wind with two snubbers.

Keep on sailing,
Peter.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

This works like a charm in very strong winds. The second anchor can even be out nearer 90 degrees. I'd rather have just one big anchor most of the time, but if its blowing real hard two anchors are better.





It is a big deal, Sailing at anchor significantly increases anchor loads, so anything you can do to reduce it makes a huge difference in a real blow.

Been there, done that, sailed in anchorages hundreds of times.... No big deal, and it doesn't increase the load on the anchor. It just makes a small amount of your chain drag back and forth. The weight of the chain absorbs any sailing force. Unless someone's using an all rope rode.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by SimcoeSailor

(snip) Last year she rode at anchor so well that at one windy anchorage (+20 Kn) in a otherwise sheltered location she dragged anchor with a 19:1 scope. I was using a 30 pound CQR with 50 feet of chain and 200 feet of 5/8 rode. We could not stay in the sheltered cove and had to dash through some very lumpy conditions to safety a couple of miles away. It was a hairy ride and one I swore I would not repeat. (Snip)

More scope can often increase sailing at anchor, especially if it is rope.

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Been there, done that, sailed in anchorages hundreds of times.... No big deal, and it doesn't increase the load on the anchor. It just makes a small amount of your chain drag back and forth. The weight of the chain absorbs any sailing force. Unless someone's using an all rope rode.

This is completely wrong on almost all counts.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

More scope can often increase sailing at anchor, especially if it is rope.




This is completely wrong on almost all counts.

Yeah you're right, what do I know about sailing in an anchorage? If you like, I can also show you before and after underwater pictures of what the anchor set and anchor chain patterns looked like before and after this windy morning. But then again... What do I know?

Shot this last season:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9lyypubKVrU

[Sandero]

Sailing about when anchored is a result of several elements of the boats design... things like... high freeboard, short deep fin feels and high aspect spade rudders... and fractional rigs with mast forward of the keel.

Ketches will use the mizzen to weathercock the boat... notice how a wind vane is designed with a plane downwind from the pivot point. This is how the anchor sail or a mizzen works. And they DO work well.

Heavier anchor and chain does little to nothing... or scope or snubber.

It becomes and issue of comfort and perhaps chafe of the rode or the possible the snubber.

pm me for a spread sheet about how your boat will yaw at anchor... It's not my work but it may be useful.

[peter57]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Yeah you're right, what do I know about sailing in an anchorage? If you like, I can also show you before and after underwater pictures of what the anchor set and anchor chain patterns looked like before and after this windy morning. But then again... What do I know?

Shot this last season:

I agree with Snow Petrel, one does not what wind against tide anchoring situ's. And tethering a second snubber deeper down the chain and right back to the headsail winches works well to stop the dancing.

What size is your chain? No wonder it is straight out in that wind strength, not strong for you to lose your catenary. I have a short amount 3/8" even on my 12" tinnie tender.

Keep on sailing,
Peter.