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Old 01-06-2013, 19:34   #46
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Re: Rope or Chain?

endoftheroad - a rope to chain splice allows the rode to pass over the windlass gypsy without jamming/clanking/falling off. but a rope spliced into an eye with a thimble and then shackled to the end of the chain is, imho, preferable. don't forget to seize all your shackles, and check the seizing from time to time.

150' of 3/8" chain only adds 225 lbs to your bow - the weight of one crewman. on a westsail 32 it's peanuts. to a liveaboard, big anchors and lots of chain are far more valuable than an insurance policy. add a 25 foot snubber to ease the load on the chain when the boats bouncing.

spend your money first on bilge pumps, anchors, chain, battery power, and any 'holes' in the underwater part of the boat (throughulls, seacocks, etc). your first job as a liveaboard is to keep the boat floating and in one place.

just my humble opinion....
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Old 01-06-2013, 19:44   #47
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I agree 150 to 200 feet of chain is reasonable. When you start adding massive anchors and full secondary all chain backup you screw up the boats sailing performance. Why I am so not all chain but have 200 feet of good chain . And rhode for the 2 back up anchors. Neither are anywhere near all chain.
Seen a few cruisers so overload that they could not sail well. But man they wee safe having all that crap. Just could not point or get out if their own way.
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Old 01-06-2013, 19:55   #48
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I think it depends where you go. If you stay around the Keys, Bahamas and Caribbean, then for your boat I would take a primary rode of 250' of 5/16" G40 chain. Use a snubber to absorb shocks and of-course a windlass to haul it in. With your new 12V you can allow the luxury of an electric model, but a manual one also works. I would use a Manson or Rocna anchor for this rode.

I would also have a secondary rode of 20' of 5/16" G40 chain spliced to 3/4" polyester Yale Octoplait. This 8-strand to chain splice is easy as pie and stronger than anything else. I would keep a Fortress anchor for this rode, or use it when there is trouble with the chain.
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Old 01-06-2013, 20:24   #49
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I think I have spliced near every type of line. Plaited line I have a hard time with. I have spliced it but it was not easy for me.. Plait I find hard. Probably a result of severe dyslexia.
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Old 01-06-2013, 21:21   #50
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Re: Rope or Chain?

Would it change anyone's recommendation to realize that this boat didn't originally come with a bow roller? Or a hawse pipe? Are any of the fellows advocating all-chain rodes aware that the Chris Craft Constellation 36 was build with a Sampson post on the bow?

Has anyone in this forum ever tried to cleat chain on a Sampson post?
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Old 01-06-2013, 21:57   #51
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Re: Rope or Chain?

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I think it depends where you go. If you stay around the Keys, Bahamas and Caribbean, then for your boat I would take a primary rode of 250' of 5/16" G40 chain. Use a snubber to absorb shocks and of-course a windlass to haul it in. With your new 12V you can allow the luxury of an electric model, but a manual one also works. I would use a Manson or Rocna anchor for this rode.

I would also have a secondary rode of 20' of 5/16" G40 chain spliced to 3/4" polyester Yale Octoplait. This 8-strand to chain splice is easy as pie and stronger than anything else. I would keep a Fortress anchor for this rode, or use it when there is trouble with the chain.
Hey....Where did he OP go?
Did he jump ship?

Jedi,
Heck yeah, a Manson Boss 45lb is high on the list. I will use all chain on this one. I have 2 genuine made in scotland CQR's (35 and 45lb) hanging from my bowsprit, at least one of em has to get sold. I will get an electric windless as I believe for safety reasons that it's a good idea that your partner (wife) can weigh anchor. I'm fortunate in my boats design that I'm not forced to carry all that chain weight in the anchor locker as the design of the dry bilges allows for the chain or the bulk of the chain to rest aft of the v-berth near the Head under the sole. Positioned above my solid cast lead, probably a few feet above the lead but at least the chain weight sits in a good spot.

My dog has bad gas, I gotta get outside.
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Old 02-06-2013, 00:57   #52
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I think I have spliced near every type of line. Plaited line I have a hard time with. I have spliced it but it was not easy for me.. Plait I find hard. Probably a result of severe dyslexia.
8-strand to chain is the easy:
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:13   #53
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A few people keep pointing out that the OP's boat is not your typical cruiser but since this is an anchor rode thread, off we go on tangents, arguments and personal favorites. So in that spirit, here is mine. Do away with the chain/rope splice. Do away with the bulky thimble. Splice a big loop in the end of your rode. Connect it to the chain with a long soft shackle cow hitched to both rodes. It'll go through the roller, windlass, hawse pipe and all. If you're worried, back it up with another soft shackle.
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Old 04-06-2013, 13:43   #54
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Re: Rope or Chain?

Answer is... it all depends. Depends on WHERE you will be boating and mostly anchoring.

On my sailboat (45', 27000 lbs) I carry both, rigged on the bow. Daily hook is 100 chain backed with 200 line on a 45 CQR. (looking at the F37 Fortress) Overnight or away from boat is 300 all chain on a 75 CQR. I don't worry at all about the extra weight in the bow but some boats might notice it. Many people recommend a Kellet (aka Sentinel) but I have never used one nor seen one used.

On my power boat (31', 9000 lbs) 30 feet chain and 200 line 25lb Delta. Secondary, not rigged, 100 all line on fortress 15lb in all sand conditions.

As someone said, if you go with all chain, add a line snubber. Ground tackle is one place you don't want to cheap out on.
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Old 04-06-2013, 14:19   #55
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Re: Rope or Chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Would it change anyone's recommendation to realize that this boat didn't originally come with a bow roller? Or a hawse pipe? Are any of the fellows advocating all-chain rodes aware that the Chris Craft Constellation 36 was build with a Sampson post on the bow?

Has anyone in this forum ever tried to cleat chain on a Sampson post?
Well its probably not all that amazing that I use a Sampson post with all chain. Must be a blonde thingy.... But its a really stout 6" square hardwood Sampson post with an impressive amount of lumber below tabbed into the hull. Plus no fancy windlass for this girl, So I use the jib winch to haul the chain with 1/2" 3 strand.

But yes the Constellations are not really set up for chain. Most I've seen use 20' ish of chain and rope on a flip over box roller. But then most rarely anchor out that much either.
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:03   #56
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Re: Rope or Chain?

Relatively new to all this though hope to have my own boat very soon (fingers still crossed for survey!).

Rope or chain...does it have to be either? Being ex-military I worked a lot with heavy duty winches, both electrical and manual, both capable of pulling/holding many many tons of force on SS wire rope. Are these systems available for the marine world, what would be the pros and cons? I see less bulk, no clunking chain, no rub or wear on nylon, no storage for excess chain etc. Just a thought, has it already been discussed or tried? Just an idea from someone with not too much experience yet... :-)
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:46   #57
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The capacity of chain you can carry also comes down to how big your anchor locker is , chain normally piles upon itself in a pyramid configuration eventually blocking the anchor winch opening and fouling the gypsy , I found on my Jarkan 10.5 I can carry only 40 metres of chain and 20 metres of rope before fouling . Sometimes I am subjected to 6-7 m tides on parts of the QLD coast and have found this more than adequate fitted with a 10 kg Rocna, saying this unfortunately a lot of yachts still wash up on the Qld coast in big storms and I think the best way to prevent dragging is to find shelter quickly, I have witnessed boat equipped with bullet proof holding power only to demolish the bow.
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Old 11-06-2013, 07:17   #58
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The capacity of chain you can carry also comes down to how big your anchor locker is , chain normally piles upon itself in a pyramid configuration eventually blocking the anchor winch opening and fouling the gypsy , I found on my Jarkan 10.5 I can carry only 40 metres of chain and 20 metres of rope before fouling . Sometimes I am subjected to 6-7 m tides on parts of the QLD coast and have found this more than adequate fitted with a 10 kg Rocna, saying this unfortunately a lot of yachts still wash up on the Qld coast in big storms and I think the best way to prevent dragging is to find shelter quickly, I have witnessed boat equipped with bullet proof holding power only to demolish the bow.
60m rode with 7m tide means the max. depth for anchoring is 4m when you keep a 5:1 scope plus the bow 1m above the water. If the bow is higher, the max. Depth is lowered with the same amount.
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:01   #59
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Re: Rope or Chain?

op owns a classic--if that classic is valued, all chain in channel islands is the way to go --is west coast and rocky bottom...if one values ones boat, one uses all chain. 5/16 is adequate--i use 5/16 on 28000 pound displacement boat.
chris crafts are getting a rare as folks lose em...good luck and have fun... beautiful boat, btw...love chris craft cruisers..

allchain does not need catenary---anchor with enough chain to keep anchor at proper angle and have a great time. if a catenary is required in an anchorage--use one..until then--be real and have fun.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:38   #60
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Re: Rope or Chain?

@ Zeehag...I'm kind of confused when you say "if a catenary is needed, use one".

A catenary is simply a physics/geometry term for the amount of "droop" (non-physics term) of any line, wire or chain (rode in our case). It is not something that can be "used" as if it were a product you can buy. It can be influenced however, by how the ground tackle is set up and used. The shape of a catenary is influenced only by three things...length of rode, type of rode, and tension applied.

If you have enough chain such that a good portion of it lies flat along the ground, then the catenary only exists between the point where it departs the ground and your attachment point on the boat, but it still exists. Even in a bar tight chain (say under extreme loading) there is still a catenary, however slight and imperceptible.

Perhaps the you were confusing Catenary with Kellet, aka Sentinel, which is sometimes used to influence the shape of the catenary.
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