Rope - Chain Splice

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by RThynes

Transmitterdan:
I have the book by Toss and did try his trick with hair setting goop to try and set the rope for splicing the long splice but I didn't have much luck, but I'm going to try it again.

Do you mind posting a picture of the splice? You mentioned seizing made it hard to go through the gypsy and I can't visualize what there is to seize. Maybe a picture will trigger an idea about why the splice is coming apart in the windlass. A rope-chain back splice should be very hard to pull apart.

[HopCar]

I've always used a three strand pre-shrunk nylon line spliced directly to the chain. I put two strands through the last chain link in one direction and the third strand through in the other direction. I do three full tucks and start tapering the splice for three more. I melt the ends into the rope so it makes a smooth taper and locks the ends in place. I've done a lot of these for myself and my customers. They are usually replaced when the rope starts to wear where it comes into contact with the chain. Making that first tuck good and tight helps reduce the wear at this point. I've never had a splice come apart and they feed nicely through many types of windlass.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by ryon

I'm having trouble visualizing a short or a long splice here. I would go with an eye splice with metal thimble, and shackle it to the chain.

You may be expecting too much from your wildcat/gypsy combination. I'd make a short six or ten foot line with a chain hook on it to get over the transition.

You probably ought to google "chain splice," because it's a completely different animal than the two splices with which you're familiar. An eye splice with a thimble is a horrible idea, as is using a chain hook to get over the transition.

Really. Chain splices work. You just need to kick your level of marlinspike up a couple notches.

[Minggat]

Originally Posted by RThynes

it has a tendency to "undo" the splice in the 3 strand Poly/Dacron rode.
.

This is the part that jumps out at me. At least the "Poly" part.
Nice for making a line float. Not nice for abrasion or for... holding a splice. as far as I know, this sort of question never comes up with nylon.

Nylon is the overwhelming choice for anchor rode for a reason.

Or am I missing something?

[lancelot9898]

I use 5/8 inch 3 strand nylon spliced to 3/8 inch BBB chain. However, I'm not using a chain splice but an eye splice which is set directly into the last chain length. My reasoning is that the part of line that is in direct contact with the chain has not been unraveled and as such should hold up better than strands that have been taken apart and put back together. Plus I'm able to get the 5/8 inch line through that last link intact. A slight drawback is that the splice needs help over the windless.

[lancelot9898]

One additonal comment about 3 strand nylon. It does have good stretch which is a positive in many respects, however....there is such a thing as a sling shot effect in high winds. Not a very pleasant experience. Still not sure how that little 35 pound CQR held in the Cat 1 hurricane.

[ryon]

Originally Posted by Bash

You probably ought to google "chain splice," because it's a completely different animal than the two splices with which you're familiar. An eye splice with a thimble is a horrible idea, as is using a chain hook to get over the transition.

Really. Chain splices work. You just need to kick your level of marlinspike up a couple notches.

The OP describes using both a short splice and a long splice to bend line to his anchor chain. I don't understand how this is possible. Maybe you can illustrate.

An eye splice with a thimble is accepted practice, as it strengthens the eye, and prevents chafing. But maybe you have some knowledge beyond mine. This is a mutual help forum, could you show us our misunderstanding instead of sending us to Google?

The nipping line with chain hook is another traditional practice. We use it aboard Lady Washington when we weigh anchor to protect her beautiful purpleheart windlass from marring. But again, maybe you can teach the crew how things ought to be done.

[RThynes]

A "short" or standard splice is the usual method be it end to end or eye splice the three strands are unlaid and then wove back under the strands of the standing end, the long splice is different in that each strand of the bitter end is unlaid a different length as is a mating strand on the standing side and the "loose" strand is then layed back down in its place and then tucked. It results in a less bulky splice as the tucks are spaced out quite a bit. This is the method that Toss seems to recommend.
It may get rid of the problem I'm having with standing end unlaying next to the splice.

[RThynes]

Should have been ProDacron there is only a small poly tracer in each strand.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

I am puzzled by the OP. what/how exactly is the splice coming apart? Do you have any pics?

I have used a standard 3 strand back splice on chain, running thru a lewmar chain/rope gypsy, for years and its never shown any tendency to come apart.

Yeah, I dont get it either... but re-reading the original post, I missed that he's using poly /dacron 3 strand.....(i as thinking nylon) that must be the stuff they do bolt ropes on sails with? Therein lies the problem I suppose.

[ryon]

I'm not being understood, and think we are using the wrong terminology. I'll risk being pedantic and walk thru slowly. I reserve the right to be wrong, and to totally misunderstand the question. I have no problems with being corrected, except by Google.

The short splice (fig. 12), and the long splice (fig. 15) are used to splice two ends of similar rope. I don't see how they could be used to bend a line to chain, but that's beside the point. Figure 14 illustrates an eye splice, which I believe is the proper splice to use in this instance.

An eye splice, with a thimble, served over, with a saftied shackle to the chain would be my second choice if I understand the question correctly. All chain would be everyone's first, I'm sure. If the rode were too heavy to lift over this transition by hand, a short, hooked chain nip described in my previous post could power it over using the gypsy.

I suspect that the OP would like to power the entire rode up, without walking forward to hand the line. In this case why not use an eye splice with several extra tucks? You can taper it either by dropping a strand for the last two, or by incrementally cutting back the fibers. If it's synthetic, leave a little extra hanging out at the ends, then melt them back for a neater job. There are references for how many tucks to use with different materials. I have to look them up too.

There will be wear where the wildcat grips the splice, and you will need to watch for abrasion where the line joins the chain. Maybe pound a thimble over the chain before splicing? I doubt there's space. You would be safe in serving the splice over, but that contact point where the line meets the chain would still need to be watched. Remember that synthetic will melt, and if there is any local heating of the metal thru friction or whatever, the fibers could be damaged.

Bash: I did Google chain splice, and I don't like it, for the chafing reasons above. YMMV.

[HopCar]

"I suspect that the OP would like to power the entire rode up, without walking forward to hand the line."

Me too! It's great to just flip a switch and have the anchor come right up without having to leave the helm.

"In this case why not use an eye splice with several extra tucks? You can taper it either by dropping a strand for the last two, or by incrementally cutting back the fibers."

Because it would jam in the gypsy.

"I did Google chain splice, and I don't like it, for the chafing reasons above."

It is a trade off. But I think it's worth it. I just check mine often and re-splice as needed. For me that's every two years or so. Your mileage may vary.

[SaucySailoress]

On 10mm chain, we have a splice about 30cm long, and covered with duct tape. That way the duct tape can be replaced when it wears out, and the spice is fine.

[RThynes]

The first replacement of the splice may have been a little short which contributed to the problem. When I replaced that splice I cut off the limp section so I had sound rope to work with and I ran the splice out two additional tucks, tapered the splice and sewed each end down. What is happening now, and I may have not stated it perfectly by saying it was unlaying, is the rope is untwisting "loosing it's lay" adjacent the splice. So my next attempt will be to use the "long splice" method seemingly recommended by Toss.
A swivel at the chain/rope mating would probably help but it would not go around the gypsy.

Originally Posted by estarzinger

I am puzzled by the OP. what/how exactly is the splice coming apart? Do you have any pics?

I have used a standard 3 strand back splice on chain, running thru a lewmar chain/rope gypsy, for years and its never shown any tendency to come apart.

[motion30]

I do not think this is a big mystery . the poly rope is slippery that's why this place is working its way apart is anybody here having trouble with a splice in a nylon rode ?