Rolling Hitch on Snubber

[Kettlewell]

I've never had that happen to me, using 3-strand, and tied on chain in high winds. I have asked New England ropes before what is their most durable, chafe-resistant nylon line, and they said 3-strand. It is also more slip resistant and provides greater elasticity.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Guy

Using double braid for something like this is a little sketchy. A good portion of the strength is in the cover and it's pretty thin.

+1

Snubbers should be nylon three-strand or octoplait. You want it to stretch; this is no place for old sheets.

Without stretch, that old sheet self eestructed. Plus doesn't tie on well. Three:-)-strand, in particular, just molds to the chain - magic. Evans, suggest you give it another try with more appropriate materials.

[SkiprJohn]

Had these nice folks at Mantus give us a Giveaway of an anchor in February. This is a stainless chain hook. Check their website for prices.

kind regards,

[sww914]

I don't like to use rolling hitches on something that's loaded and moving all the time. That picture perfectly illustrates the spot where it wants to cut it's self. I'm too cheap to buy a nice chain hook for my bridle, they're $75.00 down in Mex and they look like they'll just come off given any slack.
I've been using some 5/16" high tech line looped through the chain 5 times with a bowline at either end making a bridle of sorts at the chain and then my actual snubber tied through all the loops that I created.
I do use a rolling hitch on the chain as a chain lock to relieve the windlass of the responsibility in case the snubber breaks. I'll take some pics next time we anchor. It all works great and didn't cost anything.

[s/v Jedi]

Tested up to 80 knots or so, never a problem, never clumsy:

[noelex 77]

I used a rolling hitch for many years and never suffered a rope failure like you have experienced.
However I did find the rolling hitch occasionally slipped during strong wind.

I now use a Klemheist hitch and have never had it fail. I leave the loop intact and connect the loop to the snubber proper with a very large shackle (large so the the radius is generous) to a spliced eye in the snubber.
The loop only uses a small amount of line so I replace it reasonably often.

The Klemheist is easy and quick to tie and can always be undone very easily, even after high load, which is perhaps more important.

[conachair]

Never had a problem like that. Yet anyway.

Has anyone had a chain hook bend under extreme load? Happened to a friend, hook wouldn't come off with exciting consequences for a few minutes while ther big hammer was dug out, scarey enough story to make me stick with knots.

[SVNeko]

On Brion Toss's site, someone described a short piece of dyneema with a loop on the end connected via bull hitch to a stretchier snubber with a loop on the end. Could give you a stronger connection to the chain and preserve stretch.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Tested up to 80 knots or so, never a problem, never clumsy:

I have used an identical chain hook for many years and have had no problems. It will fall off if it is unloaded, but if you don't let it ride on the sea floor it does not become unloaded, so no worries except for folks who anchor in very shallow water. In our fairly typical bow roller the hook will ride over it with the chain and can be hooked on or off on deck.

And for those who believe that somehow this sort of hook does something evil to the chain... well, if you look at how folks who do heavy lifting in industrial settings, you will see these hooks in common usage. The lifting folks are subject to a lot of regulatory oversight, and the hook is acceptable there, so I doubt if it is an issue for us.

Cheers,

Jim

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

We have at various times discussed ways to attach snubbers to chain. I had pretty much always previously used a chain hook, but based on some discussion here I decided to try the very simply rolling hitch method.

I will say that it is a bit easier and less clumsy than using a chain hook.

But I had the below happen last night:
Attachment 61282
Attachment 61283

This is Dacron double braid in relatively good condition. The winds were about 30 with gusts to 35kts with some decent chop - not terrific but also not horrible.

It looks to me like the line cut itself in half, where the loaded portion comes out from under one of the 'half hitches'. There are various ways to tie a rolling hitch (And note that I used three wraps on the loaded side of the hitch rather than the more typical two), and we can debate that, but #1 note the knot itself did not slip or fail, and #2 all the various ways to tie a rolling hitch (I think) have the loaded portion bearing on a 'locking half hitch' in this way.

I had tried to experiment with a spectra tail on this line, and tie the rolling hitch in the spectra, because I actually had thought the likely failure point would be the line chafing on the chain, but I did not find a method I really liked, and while spectra is much more resistant to chafe, it is vulnerable to this sort of tight radius 'cutting itself'.

Anyway . . . . thoughts or suggestions. For today I have gone back to chain hooks.

See the latest copy of BOAT US's magazine, an article called "Get a Grip!" It recommends something they call an "icicle hitch" speifically for a snubber on an anchor. June/July issue, p. 92.

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I've never had that happen to me, using 3-strand, and tied on chain in high winds. I have asked New England ropes before what is their most durable, chafe-resistant nylon line, and they said 3-strand. It is also more slip resistant and provides greater elasticity.

No problems with a rolling hitch on my three strand either. I put a half hitch or two on the tail (to the main line) just to keep that from banging around.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

And for those who believe that somehow this sort of hook does something evil to the chain... well, if you look at how folks who do heavy lifting in industrial settings, you will see these hooks in common usage. The lifting folks are subject to a lot of regulatory oversight, and the hook is acceptable there, so I doubt if it is an issue for us.

After decades lifting things that's why I'm a little bit wary of the stainless hooks, industrial chain grabs from the likes of crosby have a ridge running down each side of the hook to cope with the large side loading, missing on the hooks sold to the likes of us.
Probably extremely unlikely but a small bend jamming the hook on the chain when you want to get out of somewhere in a hurry could make for an interesting few minutes.
Anyway, different boats and all that.

[barnakiel]

Looks OK to me.

Probably the set-up became overloaded and the weakest element gave, which is part of the schedule. Or else the snubber was already worn from use.

I would not worry and go ahead with another piece - a bit stronger perhaps, a different design perhaps.

What happened to us another day was the opposite scenario - the snubber did not let go and it cut an ugly grove in the gunwale. I'd rather it had snapped!

b.

[Andrew Troup]

I've taken to using a sacrificial webbing sling, made with a beer knot, Kleimheisted to the chain as shown

Then the sling's loop forms the standing part of a double sheet bend, with the snubber line forming the other part (I find the double version easier to untie after a serious session)

If I had to retrieve in a panic-stations departure, I'd slice through the sling parallel to the chain, between rope and chain, and the residue would happily make it round the chainwheel and into the navel pipe

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by conachair

After decades lifting things that's why I'm a little bit wary of the stainless hooks, industrial chain grabs from the likes of crosby have a ridge running down each side of the hook to cope with the large side loading, missing on the hooks sold to the likes of us.
Probably extremely unlikely but a small bend jamming the hook on the chain when you want to get out of somewhere in a hurry could make for an interesting few minutes.
Anyway, different boats and all that.

Like I said, I "tested" this in all conditions. Up to 80 knots or so everything is just fine, no bending or jamming or breaking. I also "tested" with 120+ knots (kts, not mpg!) and then the snubber shafes through quickly, but the hook is fine and so is the splice and the dyneema lashing.
There is no problem to solve.