Rolling Hitch on Snubber

[cfarrar]

And Evans & Jedi, do you not think that the simple loop-through-chain link might result in sawing action that chafes the Spectra? It just seems like the Kleimheist would be more chafe resistant.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by cfarrar

And Evans & Jedi, do you not think that the simple loop-through-chain link might result in sawing action that chafes the Spectra? It just seems like the Kleimheist would be more chafe resistant.

No, I don't think it will chafe at all. There will not be any sawing action because it doesn't stretch.

About soft shackles, here is my thread about the soft shackles: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...es-102779.html
And here is thesite and calculator I used: http://l-36.com/soft_shackle_howto.php

[NZGrant]

My apologies for my ignorance but what length should a snubber be? The only snubbers I have seen in use appear to be there to stop noise at the bow roller more than anything else as they only go from the bow to just above the water line. So probably not much more than 2 metres which cannot supply much in the way of stretch to absorb snatch loads.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by NZGrant

My apologies for my ignorance but what length should a snubber be? The only snubbers I have seen in use appear to be there to stop noise at the bow roller more than anything else as they only go from the bow to just above the water line. So probably not much more than 2 metres which cannot supply much in the way of stretch to absorb snatch loads.

I make my snubbers about 6 meters long, of which 1 meter is on deck for cleating etc so 5 meters out there to stretch. When you do much more the stretch start acting like a bungee cord with the boat whipping back forward too far etc.

[nigel1]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

No, I don't think it will chafe at all. There will not be any sawing action because it doesn't stretch.

About soft shackles, here is my thread about the soft shackles: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...es-102779.html
And here is thesite and calculator I used: Soft Shackles

Nick, I have not worked Amsteel rope, is it a single braid rope, and the eye made by bringing one end of the line through centre of the rope?
The stopper knot looks like what we call a lanyard knot.

Edit: I just followed your link Nick, and it answered my question. I'll have to get some of this rope and have a go at making a few

[Cotemar]

Here is a good how to video for making Soft Shackles.

Softie Soft Shackle Construction- How to. - YouTube

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by nigel1

Nick, I have not worked Amsteel rope, is it a single braid rope, and the eye made by bringing one end of the line through centre of the rope?
The stopper knot looks like what we call a lanyard knot.

Edit: I just followed your link Nick, and it answered my question. I'll have to get some of this rope and have a go at making a few

It is very nice to do. The small grey one was made with 1/8" Amsteel Blue (in grey color, go figure), the medium white one was 3/16" New England ropes V100 IIRC and the big blue one was 1/4" Amsteel Blue again.

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

No, I don't think it will chafe at all. There will not be any sawing action because it doesn't stretch.

About soft shackles, here is my thread about the soft shackles: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...es-102779.html
And here is thesite and calculator I used: Soft Shackles

Jedi,
Do you have a link or instructions for your middle one thats an improved version and made that in 3/16" Endura 12. This construction ends up as 3/8" or 9.5mm thick. Here is a similar photo series that shows the difference; basically, the whipping halfway is replaced by a brummel-like lock.

[Cotemar]

Jedi,

Is this the "Better Soft Shackle" ?
Better Soft Shackle

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Jedi,
Do you have a link or instructions for your middle one thats an improved version and made that in 3/16" Endura 12. This construction ends up as 3/8" or 9.5mm thick. Here is a similar photo series that shows the difference; basically, the whipping halfway is replaced by a brummel-like lock.

Oh yes, sorry about that... I've been doing a bunch and mixed it up. Here are the matching instructions and calculator:
http://l-36.com/soft_shackle_9.php

I like the version of the small gray one too, but need to check how the 1/8" dyneema works with this improved version

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Jedi,

Is this the "Better Soft Shackle" ?
Better Soft Shackle

Yep. Regardless of the naysayers, you will find it is 100% secure and can't come loose by itself

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Yep. Regardless of the naysayers, you will find it is 100% secure and can't come loose by itself

It looks like the same type of hybrid soft shackle that estarzinger used for his snubber chain grabber.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1243952

I really have to make a few of these to give it a go. Looks to be a really nice setup.

Better Soft Shackle

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

It looks like the same type of hybrid soft shackle that estarzinger used for his snubber chain grabber.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1243952

I really have to make a few of these to give it a go. Look to be a really nice setup.

Better Soft Shackle

It is very similar, but see in that first pic how much further it can open? That is how it can go loose by itself when not under tension. That "better shackle" design limits this as can be seen in my pic

[s/v Jedi]

A couple more points now that I'm at it anyway:

- I would not put a thimble in the eyesplice of the snubber. It is metal maintenance trouble and my tests have shown it is not needed for strength. Snubbers never break at the eyesplice near the chain regardless if it has a thimble or not.

- the picture from Evans shows the stopper knot of the soft shackle right there at the eye splice / thimble of the snubber. This is not good, it should be halfway between snubber and chain. The reason is that the forces divide when it's in the middle and with the stopper knot as the weak point, it's better when that only sees half the load.

cheers,
Nick.

[Andrew Troup]

Ahem; I disagree, Nick

It's true the stopper knot sees only half the load, but not true (IMO) that this is changed to the full load when it's half way round the thimble.

(in fact, if the thimble is large, the theoretical load when it's exactly half way round will be relieved a tiny amount by the frictional transfer of load from the rope either side of the stopper to the metal of the thimble, but that's 'angels dancing on pinhead' territory.

I agree with your conclusion, that it would be preferable (probably much preferable) to move it away from the thimble, but I disagree with your stated reason.

ON EDIT: Thanks a lot for the links, and the effort you've gone to on this topic. I don't have time right now but will definitely take a thorough look, and no doubt learn a lot.