Rolling Hitch Nylon Rode Snubber ?

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Generally you only loop through 2x, but 3x is good. One time generates a ring bend, the way you chain rubber bands together. Just go one more.

Note that the loop is smaller in diameter than the other line; this is CRITICAL. Same size will slip. The loop also must be made of soft ling or webbing.

The loops are easily purchased pre-sewn from nylon or hi-tech stuff and are much easier to work with than tied line. (Mammut Dyneema Contact Sling at REI.com)

I don't get it.

Once I have that loop around the anchor line I have a little loop around the anchor line. Now I have a bridle line in my left hand and a loop attached to the anchor line in my right hand.

Neither hand knows what to do next.

What the heck am I missing?????

I want to attach two bridle lines (one from the port side and one from the starboard side) to an anchor line coming out the middle of the boat.

We are not using a 20 foot bridle loop here are we?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Therapy

I don't get it.

Once I have that loop around the anchor line I have a little loop around the anchor line. Now I have a bridle line in my left hand and a loop attached to the anchor line in my right hand.

Neither hand knows what to do next.

What the heck am I missing?????

I want to attach two bridle lines (one from the port side and one from the starboard side) to an anchor line coming out the middle of the boat.

We are not using a 20 foot bridle loop here are we?

With a rolling hitch, normally the knot would be tied with a ~ 25' length of line. It becomes one leg of the bridle, and the rode becomes the other. You need to add chafe protection at both chocks. You need to cleat the rode off even if you have a windlass; the strain should not stay on most windlasses. You also have the option af adjusting leg lengths a bit to get the boat into the waves better, but don't go to far, because waves shift.

With a prussic hitch there are 2 choices; something like what I just described, or a separate purpose-made bridle. The above takes less rigging. A purpose-built bridle has several advantages: it is fast, the chafe gear is in place, and the measurements are set. Both methods are common and I won't argue which is better or easier.

The loop is simply clipped to the bridle or single line with either a shackle (annoying) or a locking carabiner (limited to boats under ~ 10,000 pounds by the availability of carabiners that have a safe working load of ~ 2500 pounds). In this weight range the use of thimbles depends on rough edges - with a carabiner there are none. If you use a figure-8 knot to form the loop you can simply thread a short piece of tubular webbing to serve the purpose of a thimble. 2" tubular webbing also makes the best chafe gear for the bridle splice and chock areas. Better than hose since ther is less friction. The chafe gear on my dock lines is 15 years old, and so are the lines - it is that good.

Oh yeah - you don't need 2 bridle lines in this case; a 40' line with a figure-8 loop in the middle and both ends will do fine. Use 5/8" line and it will be as strong as the rest of the anchor system. I used that system for thousands of miles before I started using more chain. Another advantage of the system is that it is dead-simple to connect multiple anchor rodes to the same central loop. That is the reson I like it.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by thinwater

With a rolling hitch, normally the knot would be tied with a ~ 25' length of line. It becomes one leg of the bridle, and the rode becomes the other. You need to add chafe protection at both chocks. You need to cleat the rode off even if you have a windlass; the strain should not stay on most windlasses. You also have the option af adjusting leg lengths a bit to get the boat into the waves better, but don't go to far, because waves shift.

With a prussic hitch there are 2 choices; something like what I just described, or a separate purpose-made bridle. The above takes less rigging. A purpose-built bridle has several advantages: it is fast, the chafe gear is in place, and the measurements are set. Both methods are common and I won't argue which is better or easier.

The loop is simply clipped to the bridle or single line with either a shackle (annoying) or a locking carabiner (limited to boats under ~ 10,000 pounds by the availability of carabiners that have a safe working load of ~ 2500 pounds). In this weight range the use of thimbles depends on rough edges - with a carabiner there are none. If you use a figure-8 knot to form the loop you can simply thread a short piece of tubular webbing to serve the purpose of a thimble. 2" tubular webbing also makes the best chafe gear for the bridle splice and chock areas. Better than hose since ther is less friction. The chafe gear on my dock lines is 15 years old, and so are the lines - it is that good.

Oh yeah - you don't need 2 bridle lines in this case; a 40' line with a figure-8 loop in the middle and both ends will do fine. Use 5/8" line and it will be as strong as the rest of the anchor system. I used that system for thousands of miles before I started using more chain. Another advantage of the system is that it is dead-simple to connect multiple anchor rodes to the same central loop. That is the reson I like it.

You know, I really appreciate everything you wrote and the time it took you to write it but I just don't get it.

Two bridle lines going out from the boat with a figure of eight knot in the ends, hooked to a carabiner, hooked to a prussic knot loop, looped on the anchor line. Did I get that right - I don't think so really. And then there is chafe protection stuff on part of the prussic loop and the ends of the bridle.

I guess I need a picture or a bunch of them since you explained four or five ways to do it.



PS. how much is this - 22 kilonewtons

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Therapy

You know, I really appreciate everything you wrote and the time it took you to write it but I just don't get it.

Two bridle lines going out from the boat with a figure of eight knot in the ends, hooked to a carabiner, hooked to a prussic knot loop, looped on the anchor line. Did I get that right - I don't think so really. And then there is chafe protection stuff on part of the prussic loop and the ends of the bridle.

I guess I need a picture or a bunch of them since you explained four or five ways to do it.



PS. how much is this - 22 kilonewtons

The bridle can be 1-piece. Take a 40' line and tie a figure-8 loop at each end and the middle. The middle is the apex. The carabiner attaches the sling to the apex. Chafing gear is needed where the bridle passes across the bow chock and possibly other places too, but not on the prussic loop itself. The sling is cheap and I simply replace it when needed, every year, more or less.

A figure-8 is an 80% strength knot that will stay tied. The ends could also be spliced, but knots are good while your trying things out. A splice does not work so well in the center; hence, some people use 2 lines and a shackle. For your size boat, that is not needed.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by thinwater

The bridle can be 1-piece. Take a 40' line and tie a figure-8 loop at each end and the middle. The middle is the apex. The carabiner attaches the sling to the apex. Chafing gear is needed where the bridle passes across the bow chock and possibly other places too, but not on the prussic loop itself. The sling is cheap and I simply replace it when needed, every year, more or less.

A figure-8 is an 80% strength knot that will stay tied. The ends could also be spliced, but knots are good while your trying things out. A splice does not work so well in the center; hence, some people use 2 lines and a shackle. For your size boat, that is not needed.

OK,

I think I got it. The figure of eight on the ends I don't get because I am looking at cleats on the bows, but I think I got the rest of it now.

Whew!

Thanks.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Therapy

OK,

I think I got it. The figure of eight on the ends I don't get because I am looking at cleats on the bows, but I think I got the rest of it now.

Whew!

Thanks.

makes it more idiot proof when you are tired. The loop should be just a little longer than the length of the cleat.

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by GordMay

and my favorite 'knot' site:
“Animated Knots by Grog”
Knot-Tying for Boating, Climbing, Fishing, Scouting, and Arborists
Animated Knots by Grog

Mine too!

[Mark_S.]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The Rolling Hitch is like a Clove Hitch with an extra turn. When tension is applied to the snubber line , the hitch will lock onto the anchor rode. When tension is released, the hitch can be slid along the rode, adjusting the length. The hitch does not jam, and can be easily untied. These hitches are uni-directional, in that tension must be applied only to the end with the extra turn.

I use, what I believe is, a better variation - the Prusik Knot, or Triple-Sliding Hitch. I usually use three turns in each direction, but more turns = more security. This knot must be tied with a rope of diameter less than the main rope, as the effectiveness of the knot is reduced the closer the two ropes are in size. The Prusik knot is symmetrical, so is effective regardless of the direction of pull.

I understand that the Prusik has been superceded in recent years by its more advanced cousins, such as the Klemheist knot (only effective in one direction of pull).

Anyway, you’re on the right track ...
Gord

Do you run the snubber with these knots back over the bow roller and cleat to one or both sides of the boat, or do you make a bridle with each line of the snubber and cleat on each side of the boat without passing through the bow roller? Thanks in advance.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Mark_S.

Do you run the snubber with these knots back over the bow roller and cleat to one or both sides of the boat, or do you make a bridle with each line of the snubber and cleat on each side of the boat without passing through the bow roller? Thanks in advance.

I always run a Rope rode, and or snubber, through a fairlead (never over the roller).
I’ve never felt the need for a bridled snubber, but it couldn’t hurt.

A picture ➥ Grab hook, anchor snubber, anchor bridle, anchor chain
Pic shows a (pair of) hook(s) in lieu of the hitches discussed.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I always run a Rope rode, and or snubber, through a fairlead (never over the roller).
I’ve never felt the need for a bridled snubber, but it couldn’t hurt.

A picture ➥ Grab hook, anchor snubber, anchor bridle, anchor chain
Pic shows a (pair of) hook(s) in lieu of the hitches discussed.

IMHO, a bridle on a monohull is a waste of effort, unless you are specifically trying to adjust the angle of pull on the rode for some reason. If your snubber runs off to one side through a fairlead, the angle helps you to lie more stably and dance less, in my experience.

I don't have dockline fairleads on my present boat. I have stainless rub plates on the toe rail next to the bow cleats, which is ok for dock lines, but I chafed through a snubber on them once. Ever since that, I run the snubber over the second bow roller. Gord, why don't you like to have your snubber on a bow roller? You don't get the offset angle, but is there some other disadvantage?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by thinwater

With a rolling hitch, normally the knot would be tied with a ~ 25' length of line. It becomes one leg of the bridle, and the rode becomes the other.

I would respectfully disagree with this -- IMHO you do NOT want any loads at all to be transferred to the boat through the chain. A "bridle" assumes that two legs are both carrying at least some part of the load -- a properly rigged snubber, IMHO, will carry 100% of the loads and entirely unload the chain, so that snatch loads don't get through the inflexible chain to the boat. The chain should be dangling with 0% of the load to prevent snatching through the chain -- the whole point of having a snubber.

Why do you need a bridle on a monohull at all? The only purpose I can think of is to eliminate the slight angle of pull you get from hanging from one bow cleat, but why? Every monohull I've ever been on rides more stably at anchor with a slight offset pull. Directly head to the wind is not as stable, because the center of pressure of a single mast vessel with the sails down is forward of the center of pressure of the keel and thus of the boat's pivot point.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

... Gord, why don't you like to have your snubber on a bow roller? You don't get the offset angle, but is there some other disadvantage?

What Dockhead said.
Anchor rollers generally extend beyond the deck, resulting in cantilever loads.
Anchor rollers are not generally “fair”, resulting in increased chaffe.

[Mark Johnson]

On our Searunner, we always set the hook and then use a 30' bridle with a 3' tail. This provides stretch and directional stability as well. (By pointing ONLY into the wind, VS sawing around, it cuts the load on the rode in half.

We are sometimes laying to the 110' of chain, and sometimes laying to the remaining rope portion of the rode.

We use the bridle's "tail" and tie in a rolling hitch to either the rope or chain. It holds equally well to both, even up to a category one hurricane. The knot is always easy to untie as well.

This has the advantage of working on either rope type, and can lay on the bottom without coming undone. IF you cinch up the knot, and slowly back down to an RPM that = about 60 MPH winds, then you know that the hook is set, as is the knot.

Mark

[barnakiel]

From my experience it does not slip and it does not get tight.

We use the hitch in many configurations and all weather conditions, never any issue.

However, I think in heavy weather conditions you may be better of to protect the main rode from chafe and do without the snubber - after all the hitch will take some strength from the rode - just like any other hitch or knot does.

You can always tie the hitch just tight so if the main rode parts at the gunwale, the snubber will take over. In fact, in less dramatic conditions, you can use a light snubber as an alarm of sorts - if it parts you will know the conditions are nasty ;-).

b.

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

...

However, I think in heavy weather conditions you may be better of to protect the main rode from chafe and do without the snubber - after all the hitch will take some strength from the rode - just like any other hitch or knot does.

You can always tie the hitch just tight so if the main rode parts at the gunwale, the snubber will take over. In fact, in less dramatic conditions, you can use a light snubber as an alarm of sorts - if it parts you will know the conditions are nasty ;-).

b.

I think this is backwards. The point of the snubber is to act as a cushion to reduce the impact loading on the whole anchoring system. It's more important in heavy conditions as that's when you're going to get big loads (largest loads are due to waves on an already tight rode). Does make sense to have a heavier snubber, perhaps, for the really big conditions, but the heavier the snubber, the less boing you get out of it.