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11-02-2011, 19:48
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Currently cruising the Philippines, just got back from PNG & Solomons
Boat: Wauquiez 45' (now 48') catamaran
Posts: 1,088
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Get what you pay for...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas
... far as the anchors, get whichever is less expensive
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I must disagree. The Manson & Rocna & Bugel are more expensive than CQR or Delta or Bruce/Claw, but they're worth it. We used a 45 lb CQR for 15 years (dragging maybe 4 times) but now we're firmly converted to MS/Rocna (we use a Rocna now, but I really like the MS as well). I suspect the prices will come down when the patent wears off (which it already has for the Bugel).
I would not put the Spade in the same category as MS & Rocna, as we've seen a Spade folded up like a pretzel when it's hollow(!!) shank failed.
FWIW, we've now posted a comparison of several anchors here. It's non-commercial, with no particular axe to grind - just my observations & opinions after 16 years of cruising.
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11-02-2011, 19:51
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#32
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 407
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Do you have any evidence or see any feedback to support your rumor-mongering Faith, or should your comments on the topic - of the location of the patch of land a bit of metal is produced - be viewed simply as bigotry?
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11-02-2011, 19:56
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#33
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Hacking
I must disagree. The Manson & Rocna & Bugel are more expensive than CQR ... Bruce
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Not to take issue with your entire post but the above is wrong, no? The genuine CQR remains the most expensive anchor that I know of, barring perhaps the Spade. The genuine Bruce would I think be priced similarly to the Rocna if it were still available. With the copies, like the Bruce knock-offs and the Manson products etc, it's just a case of quality and you-get-what-you-pay-for.
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11-02-2011, 19:57
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'
Funny how you enjoy speaking against the competitors.... all while ignoring the fact you have ruined your products reputation by outsourcing it to China. Say what you will, no one is likely to accept the superiority of tools, shackles, or anchors made in China.
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. . . And, since made in China now, where's the corresponding hefty price break normally passed on to the consumer? Shouldn't the Rocna price now be much lower than similar products from any of the competition not made in China? Come on, pass on the savings! Share the wealth! I figure at the China price, I could afford to have a couple cheapies on board, just in case ya know!
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20-07-2013, 09:11
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: New Bern, NC
Boat: Shannon 43 Ketch
Posts: 246
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Re: Rocna vs Manson Supreme Anchors
Well fellas - I have some bad news. I did like you all and ended up with the Manson Supreme. My first weekend on anchor with it in 10' of water and silty mud bottom - I dragged twice in 17kts of wind. I had 50' of 3/8 chain out - 5 to 1 was plenty for the expected weather. I let out 10 to 1 before I could feel ok. I must say that my Bruce would have been better in that anchorage.
We can say all we want, but the prudent mariner will have different anchors for different solutions. On my Med Cruise and Caribbean passage, I had a Bruce primary, Delta Secondary, an oversized Fortress and a smaller Fisherman. I've anchored in 50kt winds in St. Tropez and held fine on my Bruce; in Bermuda, I made a bahamian anchor set-up with the Bruce and Delta - I wasn't going ANYWHERE!....
Capt T.
43' Shannon Ketch
SV Marite
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20-07-2013, 10:13
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#36
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cruising Mexico Currently
Boat: Gulfstar 50
Posts: 1,979
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Re: Rocna vs Manson Supreme Anchors
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsmith
Do you have any evidence or see any feedback to support your rumor-mongering Faith, or should your comments on the topic - of the location of the patch of land a bit of metal is produced - be viewed simply as bigotry?
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Pieces of metal are not made by patches of land but by the people living and working on those patches of land. Those people may have great skills or lesser skills you get what you pay for. Those people may decide on their own that the defect rate is too great and can be "fixed" by using a lesser steel or management might tell them to use a lesser steel. You get what you pay for.
In each case it is not the patch of land but rather the people involved who set the quality of the product. And it was management and owners that were responsible for the product brought to market..... Greed or incompetence take your pick.
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20-07-2013, 11:02
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,886
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Re: Rocna vs Manson Supreme Anchors
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sati8d
Well fellas - I have some bad news. I did like you all and ended up with the Manson Supreme. My first weekend on anchor with it in 10' of water and silty mud bottom - I dragged twice in 17kts of wind. I had 50' of 3/8 chain out - 5 to 1 was plenty for the expected weather. I let out 10 to 1 before I could feel ok. I must say that my Bruce would have been better in that anchorage.
We can say all we want, but the prudent mariner will have different anchors for different solutions. On my Med Cruise and Caribbean passage, I had a Bruce primary, Delta Secondary, an oversized Fortress and a smaller Fisherman. I've anchored in 50kt winds in St. Tropez and held fine on my Bruce; in Bermuda, I made a bahamian anchor set-up with the Bruce and Delta - I wasn't going ANYWHERE!....
Capt T.
43' Shannon Ketch
SV Marite
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Does your snubber or chain lead from the bowsprit or waterline and was it 10 feet at high or low tide?
What size Manson Supreme?
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20-07-2013, 11:12
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cruising NC, FL, Bahamas, TCI & VIs
Boat: 1964 Pearson Ariel 'Faith' / Pearson 424, sv Emerald Tide
Posts: 1,531
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Re: Rocna vs Manson Supreme Anchors
Wow,
A bit of nostalgia today reading this this thread...l
Early on, my being accused of racism by Craig Smith for suggesting Rocnas move to China was going to hurt quality.... All back before Destructive testing proved Rocna had really taken a dive....
Old threads... Good times, good times.
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20-07-2013, 11:14
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#39
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S/V rubber ducky
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: heading "south"
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 20,363
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Re: Rocna vs Manson Supreme Anchors
far as I'm concerned all anchors will drag someday
but so far my Manson Supreme 60# hasn't, which is all I can offer
__________________
Don't ask a bunch of unknown forum people if it is OK to do something on YOUR boat. It is your boat, do what you want!
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20-07-2013, 11:20
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,886
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Re: Rocna vs Manson Supreme Anchors
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don L
far as I'm concerned all anchors will drag someday
but so far my Manson Supreme 60# hasn't, which is all I can offer
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Sure hope my 60 Manson doesn't drag until someone else inherits it...
especially in 17 knots of wind...
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20-07-2013, 11:56
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#41
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,858
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60lb... tsk tsk... my shackle weighs that
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.
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20-07-2013, 11:57
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,409
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Re: Rocna vs Manson Supreme Anchors
has anybody had the opportunity yet to try out the.manson boss?
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20-07-2013, 11:59
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: New Bern, NC
Boat: Shannon 43 Ketch
Posts: 246
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Re: Rocna vs Manson Supreme Anchors
The Manson on the 43 Shannon is a 45lb.
Good point, my snubber was NOT attached, which would have lowered the pull center.
The Shannon has a snubber attachment at the water line but we have not had a chance to hook that up yet. That will make a drastic difference from the bowsprit which is 6' off the water.
That's really silly - I know better. I'm new to this older boat we just bought and have not had much chance to sail as of yet. Still working on her....
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20-07-2013, 12:23
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#44
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,151
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Re: Rocna vs Manson Supreme Anchors
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
60lb... tsk tsk... my shackle weighs that
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My hero...
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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20-07-2013, 12:29
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#45
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1976 Sabre 28-2
Posts: 7,505
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Re: Rocna vs Manson Supreme Anchors
Assume the Shannon 43 is close to 30,000# displacement. That would make a 45# anchor too small for secure anchoring in mind. 45# is more the size anchor for a 20,000# boat. Would think you'd want to up to the size by at least 10#.
Still would think any anchor, even just the chain laying on the bottom sans anchor would have worked in the conditions you described. Think there were other issues than the anchor in your dragging. Since you didn't try the Bruce, hard to say if it would've done any better than the Manson. Big negative for the Bruce is its ability to dig into hard bottoms which is a strong point for the Manson. Digging into muck bottom you described is something most any anchor will do and holding is strictly a function of fluke realestate.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a, Pearson 35
'Ms American Pie', Sabre 28 Mark II
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