Rocna vs Manson Supreme Anchors

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

60lb... tsk tsk... my shackle weighs that

what does your anchor weigh? just curious if you are one of those cheapout on the anchor and buy a 60 pound shackle guys....

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by psneeld

what does your anchor weigh? just curious if you are one of those cheapout on the anchor and buy a 60 pound shackle guys....

Hmmm, well I also have a big swivel if that helps the anchor without extras from shackles etc. is 176lb or 80kg.

[Target9000]

Originally Posted by motion30

has anybody had the opportunity yet to try out the.manson boss?

We have a 60lb boss which is wildly oversized for our boat. We didn't realize it at the time of ordering it but the surface area is comically large compared to say a 60lb supreme.

Though we're not cruising we got caught in a squall off of Dauphine Island, AL along the gulf coast where we had it deployed. Held us through a 180 degree wind shift with 50mph winds for about 2 hours. The seas by the end of it were extremely choppy, so much so that I could see the front half of the keel of the boat anchored beside us. The boss didn't move an inch. Sandy mud bottom which was ideal for anchoring. So not at all a definitive report on the boss, but I haven't seem many other people putting their experiences out there. Hope that helps.

[cheoah]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Hmmm, well I also have a big swivel if that helps the anchor without extras from shackles etc. is 176lb or 80kg.

Thread drift....

Saw my first Sundeer in Oriental a few weeks ago, maybe a 57 or something. Looks like a real mile muncher....

Your anchor is heavier than my permanent mooring. But I think your windlass would struggle pulling my mooring up - a 150 lb mushroom buried in feet of mud.....

Anyway, my chain is bigger than yours, little fella

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by Sati8d

The Manson on the 43 Shannon is a 45lb.
Good point, my snubber was NOT attached, which would have lowered the pull center.
The Shannon has a snubber attachment at the water line but we have not had a chance to hook that up yet. That will make a drastic difference from the bowsprit which is 6' off the water.

That's really silly - I know better. I'm new to this older boat we just bought and have not had much chance to sail as of yet. Still working on her....

I've got a 36' boat, 11 tons, and I'm using a 60lb supreme. No drags in far more wind than that.

[psneeld]

To me there's two kind of cruisers out there...those that do whatever they want and have oversized ground tackle for it...good for them

...and cruisers like me that say...nope...fair wx anchoring only....

if it's gonna blow...I'm gonna hide some place with great docks and even better bars.

Had all the thrills and scares I need for a lifetime...anchoring doesn't need to be one of them....I'm REALLY good at weather..

[Bash]

I just replaced a Made-in-Canada Rocna 25 with a Made-in-China Rocna 25. The welds on the new anchor are better, as is the galvanization.

Had the original Rocna for seven years, probably spending 450-500 nights on it all total without it ever once dragging. Unfortunately, it set so well the last time I used it I couldn't get it back.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

My hero...

So how much higher than recommended does the prudent mariner go? I recall hearing advise that you should go up one size over manufacturer recommendation but mansons website based that estimate on length of boat not displacement and length.

So, being that my boat is 38 feet and 21,000 pounds unburdened what size should I be looking at?

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by zboss

So how much higher than recommended does the prudent mariner go? I recall hearing advise that you should go up one size over manufacturer recommendation but mansons website based that estimate on length of boat not displacement and length.

So, being that my boat is 38 feet and 21,000 pounds unburdened what size should I be looking at?

If a die hard cruiser that may get caught in storm or hurricane conditions...80-100 lb.

If like me and tend to not want that kind of experience, then I guess a 60 would do.

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by psneeld

To me there's two kind of cruisers out there...those that do whatever they want and have oversized ground tackle for it...good for them

...and cruisers like me that say...nope...fair wx anchoring only....

if it's gonna blow...I'm gonna hide some place with great docks and even better bars.

Had all the thrills and scares I need for a lifetime...anchoring doesn't need to be one of them....I'm REALLY good at weather..

I'm all about fair weather anchoring as well, but if you're going long distances eventually the odds will catch up with you. And in most conditions I'll trust my ground tackle over the docks of a developing or third world nation any day.

[Jon Hacking]

Originally Posted by Sati8d

Well fellas - I have some bad news. I did like you all and ended up with the Manson Supreme. My first weekend on anchor with it in 10' of water and silty mud bottom - I dragged twice in 17kts of wind. ... I must say that my Bruce would have been better in that anchorage.
We can say all we want, but the prudent mariner will have different anchors for different solutions. ...

Your final point here is spot on. All anchors have good & bad points (which I try to point out in our anchor comparison page). One bad about the "dragons tooth" anchors (Rocna, MS, et al) is that they have significantly less surface area than other types (for their weight). They set (& usually reset) very quickly & easily, but their holding power, especially in soft mud, is lower. That's why we use a Rocna for our working anchor, but a Fortress (with huge flukes) for our storm anchor.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by zboss

So how much higher than recommended does the prudent mariner go? I recall hearing advise that you should go up one size over manufacturer recommendation but mansons website based that estimate on length of boat not displacement and length.

So, being that my boat is 38 feet and 21,000 pounds unburdened what size should I be looking at?

Perhaps not a good way to size your anchoring SYSTEM.

Try this approach:

Anchor System Sizing Tables (Reply #6) Ground Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & SwivelsGround Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & Swivels

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

One bad about the "dragons tooth" anchors (Rocna, MS, et al) is that they have significantly less surface area than other types (for their weight).

The blade area of Rocna and MS is higher than the equivalent size CQR, Delta, Kobra Bruce etc. The aluminium Fortress is obvious exception. The larger blade area combined with higher resistance of a concave surface is one of their advantages of the new generation anchors over their older predecessors.

Have a look at this photo from Mainesail's excellent website, showing a comparison of similar sized Sade, Rocna and CQR anchors. The much larger blade area of the Rocna (MS is similar) and Sade is obvious against the CQR.

Some of the latest new generation anchors like the Manson Boss are even bigger again.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/91253985

[gettinthere]

Well, my 42 weighs at least 30,000 lbs. I have a manson supreme 45 with 5/16 chain. Only dragging I've done so far is when I hooked into weeds.
In soft mud I do have to wait a bit for the anchor to settle down past the softest surface mud before setting. Been in sustained 40k blows, lots of shifting currents, etc but no named storms.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by zboss

So how much higher than recommended does the prudent mariner go? I recall hearing advise that you should go up one size over manufacturer recommendation but mansons website based that estimate on length of boat not displacement and length.

So, being that my boat is 38 feet and 21,000 pounds unburdened what size should I be looking at?

I like the calculator on the Ultra website since it takes into account both length and displacement. Size also depends on design but my opinion is that you should carry the largest anchor you can comfortably handle. In your case a 60# 3G anchor with all other components sized accordingly seems about right.