Rocna Size

[marinextreme]

Originally Posted by Agility

I had a 33KG bend last year. They suggested going to a 40KG because the shank is wider, which I did. The shank bent the first time it was used but I wasn't on the boat and the conditions were pretty strong.

And so the numbers grow.

[Cormorant]

Agility -- could you tell us a bit about the weather conditions and bottom type when both anchors bent? Did you have the sense either time that the anchor caught on something hard -- rock, coral, sunken wreck? Or did the shank bend while the anchor was simply dug in?

[Agility]

Originally Posted by downunder

That's not good and it seems there might be more problems around about to surface.

Did Rocna refund the value of the 33 towards a 40?

Yes, west marine shipped it to Mexico and upgraded it to the 40 free of charge.

[CarlF]

It's interesting that the Manson Supreme has a shorter shank than the Rocna. Wouldn't this make it considerably less prone to bending in a side loaded situation?

Carl

[KnuckleDragger]

Quoted from Delphin at YBW. (I'm not a member there.)

"It would not surprise me if Rocna is now making up some 'special' anchors that they can have tested to further muddy the waters. Unless the tested anchors are off the shelf from somewhere, I would be highly sceptical of anything they publish."

When Manson published their now famous test results of the Rocna there were a few "facts" that caused me to say hmmm.

Rocnas bought off the shelf with the receipts to show for it. Good!

Manson anchors (from their "stock") sent to the lab about a week or so later and after the results from the Rocnas were in. (This is all in black and white if you look at the dates on the lab reports.) Not good. Not fair. Did they make up some "special" anchors? Could have.

So Delphin, does this scenario arouse scepticism in you as well. Not trying to stir something up...just curious. As you know I returned my Rocna and now have a Manson.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by KnuckleDragger

Quoted from Delphin at YBW. (I'm not a member there.)

"It would not surprise me if Rocna is now making up some 'special' anchors that they can have tested to further muddy the waters. Unless the tested anchors are off the shelf from somewhere, I would be highly sceptical of anything they publish."

When Manson published their now famous test results of the Rocna there were a few "facts" that caused me to say hmmm.

Rocnas bought off the shelf with the receipts to show for it. Good!

Manson anchors (from their "stock") sent to the lab about a week or so later and after the results from the Rocnas were in. (This is all in black and white if you look at the dates on the lab reports.) Not good. Not fair. Did they make up some "special" anchors? Could have.

So Delphin, does this scenario arouse scepticism in you as well. Not trying to stir something up...just curious. As you know I returned my Rocna and now have a Manson.

IMHO, healthy skepticism!

[Silent Knight]

Originally Posted by KnuckleDragger

Manson anchors (from their "stock") sent to the lab about a week or so later and after the results from the Rocnas were in. (This is all in black and white if you look at the dates on the lab reports.) Not good. Not fair. Did they make up some "special" anchors? Could have.

It's possible but I doubt that anyone who has been following this story really believes it. Has there even been any evidence of Manson anchors failing? Certainly no test results have shown them to be using substandard materials. The only claims about poor quality have been persistent unsubstantiated claims from Rocna and the Anchorsmith.

If you really believe that Manson have been playing the same trick as Rocna you could always do what Delfin did; go and buy one, pay for the testing and report back. I think you'll be wasting your money though.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by KnuckleDragger

Manson anchors (from their "stock") sent to the lab about a week or so later and after the results from the Rocnas were in. (This is all in black and white if you look at the dates on the lab reports.) Not good. Not fair. Did they make up some "special" anchors? Could have.

Did not Manson offer to replicate the tests at their facilities with Rocna being able to witness it?

I believe they also offered to have those tests video taped. And did they not offer Rocna the opportunity to buy any Manson off the shelf to be part of that test?

I can be as skeptical as the next guy, but I think throwing a FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) factor into the equation does not bring any conclusion to the situation.

Right now, Rocna's credibility is suspect at least, and no one has suggested Manson's is an issue at all.

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Silent Knight

It's possible but I doubt that anyone who has been following this story really believes it. Has there even been any evidence of Manson anchors failing? Certainly no test results have shown them to be using substandard materials. The only claims about poor quality have been persistent unsubstantiated claims from Rocna and the Anchorsmith.

If you really believe that Manson have been playing the same trick as Rocna you could always do what Delfin did; go and buy one, pay for the testing and report back. I think you'll be wasting your money though.

Actually, the only professional analysis I've seen of a Manson was the one they commissioned. Has anyone seen another? I personally know and have used the lab where the Manson test was done, so I have no doubts about the test being accurate and unbiased, bit they can only test what was given to them.

[Silent Knight]

Originally Posted by cwyckham

Actually, the only professional analysis I've seen of a Manson was the one they commissioned. Has anyone seen another? I personally know and have used the lab where the Manson test was done, so I have no doubts about the test being accurate and unbiased, bit they can only test what was given to them.

You could go on forever with that arguement. FWIW I haven't seen test results for CQR, Sarca, Fortress, Danforth, Bruce, Spade etc etc etc but I'm not overly worried about them.
The only company that seems to have been playing fast and loose with the boating community is Rocna. Until somebody produces evidence to the contrary I, for one, am happy to accept the integrity of the other companies at face value.

[wolfenzee]

Who cares if it bends if all you want is something to look cool sitting on your bow roller in the marina. To many "tried and true" things that work on a boat are replace with some high tech improvement (improvement: something new that is better because it is different from something old)

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

Who cares if it bends if all you want is something to look cool sitting on your bow roller in the marina. To many "tried and true" things that work on a boat are replace with some high tech improvement (improvement: something new that is better because it is different from something old)

+1

[impi]

Guys, I must admit that I am starting to doubt a lot of what is being written on this thread. I have been quietly working close to hand with my supplier in Cape Town and the response and interaction I have been getting all around is quite impressive.
I think Rocna are taking a serious hiding on this one, and perhaps we should cut them some slack and become more pro active in truly getting to the bottom of this in an effort to be safe at anchor.
I would not be surprised at all if some fellas are making a meal if this for personal gain, infact, it does seem pretty obvious to me and I certainly for one, will not be buying the other popular brand being pushed on this thread in opposition to Rocna..... Although I will have a second anchor onboard.
The people involved at both our supplier level (seaport) and Rocna have displayed overwhelming interest and support in all my requests and I am sure they would do the same for you.
Happy sailing!

[Cormorant]

Originally Posted by Agility

I had a 33KG bend last year. They suggested going to a 40KG because the shank is wider, which I did. The shank bent the first time it was used but I wasn't on the boat and the conditions were pretty strong.

Agility -- somehow I misread your post the first time around and I thought both the 33 and the 40 bent their shanks. On re-reading, I see you're talking about only the 33.

Since you're the only first-person account of a bent Rocna shank we've come across, we would all love to hear some particulars of how it happened. I know you weren't there, but can you relay any details that you were told -- wind speed, direction (any sudden shift?), waves, bottom type, etc? I think everyone who is following this is just trying to get a fix on whether "normal" cruising conditions might lead to a bent shank.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by KnuckleDragger

Rocnas bought off the shelf with the receipts to show for it. Good!

Manson anchors (from their "stock") sent to the lab about a week or so later and after the results from the Rocnas were in. (This is all in black and white if you look at the dates on the lab reports.) Not good. Not fair. Did they make up some "special" anchors? Could have.

So Delphin, does this scenario arouse scepticism in you as well. Not trying to stir something up...just curious. As you know I returned my Rocna and now have a Manson.

Not really. I'm not pushing Manson, they just happen to be the closest analog to a Rocna, so when I point out that it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay 1/3 more for an anchor that is weaker than the competition, I'm making the assumption that you want a hoop anchor with a concave bottom. Personally, I don't, not because they aren't good designs but because in the weight anchor I need, a Bruce type is probably a better choice (Delfin ducks for cover....)

I don't question Manson because they are a fairly big company making a large range of anchors for small to very big ships. They say they use 800 MPa steel, and as Rocna has found, you can lie about this, but you can't keep people from testing it. I'm assuming that if Manson is lying, Rocna already would have posted their results establishing the fact, but they haven't because IMO, they can't. I also emailed Manson and asked them if they had any bent shanks on their Supremes, and their VP of marketing said to his knowledge, out of 12,000 or so shipped there has never been a complaint of a bent shank on a Manson Supreme. I referenced that in a previous post and I assume that if there was one out there we would have heard about it.

So no, the fact that Manson pulled their test subjects off their shelf rather than a retailers doesn't bother me although in hind sight, they should have.