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04-06-2013, 18:50
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Anacortes, WA
Boat: 55' Romsdal
Posts: 2,103
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Rocna Repositioned
When the kerfuffle erupted a couple of years ago over Rocna's covert decision to reduce shank steel quality below that specified by the founder while pretending not to, it was suggested that the new, cheaper Rocna just needed to re-position itself as a cheaper and lower quality Manson Supreme.
Apparently that is what has happened. In looking at Fisheries Supply in Seattle, a Manson Supreme 45# is priced, with my discount, at $452.00 while the 44# Rocna only cost $380 - a reasonable discount for an anchor a little more than 10% weaker in the shank than the Manson even before taking into account the slighter thicker shank of the Supreme. That net 15% or so weaker Rocna anchor is 15% or so cheaper. It used to be that the Rocna sold for more than the Manson, which given the quality differential made no sense. Now that is reversed. Wow! Market price transparency works.
I'm not a fan of hoop anchors, since so many other designs don't have them and in many cases hold at least as good or better I honestly can't figure out what the hoop is for. But if your heart is set on one, you now have a perfectly rational buying decision.
__________________
https://delfin.talkspot.com
I can picture in my head a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. - Jack Handey
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04-06-2013, 18:56
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: Mahe 36, Helia 44 Evo, MY 37
Posts: 5,731
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Re: Rocna repositioned
Roll bar anchor are designed to always put the pointy side down ASAP.
Roll Bars make it set faster no mater how she hit bottom.
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04-06-2013, 19:04
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Anacortes, WA
Boat: 55' Romsdal
Posts: 2,103
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Re: Rocna repositioned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar
Roll bar anchor are designed to always put the pointy side down ASAP.
Roll Bars make it set faster no mater how she hit bottom.
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I know that's what the manufacturers say, but other designs do as well or better in terms of digging in quickly. So, other than preventing the anchor from as freely burying (bad) and preventing them from fitting under many bow pulpits (bad), I'm not sure what they contribute. Apparently not needed on the new Manson Boss, which is a pretty close analog to the Supreme that has one. I continue to think that the Rocna has a roll bar because the anchor copied, the Buegel did, and whether Manson also copied the Buegel or copied the Rocna copy of the Buegel, roll bars endured.
__________________
https://delfin.talkspot.com
I can picture in my head a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. - Jack Handey
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04-06-2013, 19:07
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Shenzhen, China
Boat: Nauticat 42 (Jersey, U.K.)
Posts: 403
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Re: Rocna repositioned
Actually any new gen anchor landing upside down on the shaft is inherently unstable and will end up on its side with the tip pointing - hopefully - groundward.
It seems to me that the mass of the hoop simply provides a turning moment against the tip pointing groundward.
About the opposite of what is needed.
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04-06-2013, 19:14
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Port Ludlow Wa
Boat: Makela,Ingrid38,Idora
Posts: 2,050
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Re: Rocna repositioned
When you said repositioned, I thought you meant to dumpster or the lazerette.
Todd
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04-06-2013, 19:21
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,185
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Re: Rocna repositioned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin
I know that's what the manufacturers say, but other designs do as well or better in terms of digging in quickly. So, other than preventing the anchor from as freely burying (bad) and preventing them from fitting under many bow pulpits (bad), I'm not sure what they contribute. Apparently not needed on the new Manson Boss, which is a pretty close analog to the Supreme that has one. I continue to think that the Rocna has a roll bar because the anchor copied, the Buegel did, and whether Manson also copied the Buegel or copied the Rocna copy of the Buegel, roll bars endured.
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I have a manson supreme and it's never, ever, not set. It's popped loose a couple of times with 180 tide changes but always resets quickly enough and digs deep. Regardless of what manufacturers say, people with manson supremes are a pretty happy lot.
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04-06-2013, 19:31
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Anacortes, WA
Boat: 55' Romsdal
Posts: 2,103
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Re: Rocna repositioned
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart
I have a manson supreme and it's never, ever, not set. It's popped loose a couple of times with 180 tide changes but always resets quickly enough and digs deep. Regardless of what manufacturers say, people with manson supremes are a pretty happy lot.
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Agreed that the Rocna, Supreme (hoop types) set quickly, as does the Boss, Fortress, Spade, Ultra, Kobra, Excel (not hoop types). As do all new generation anchors, with a few exceptions.
__________________
https://delfin.talkspot.com
I can picture in my head a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. - Jack Handey
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04-06-2013, 19:41
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
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Re: Rocna repositioned
Heck! If setting quickly is the thing that makes a New Age anchor, them my old Danforth sure qualifys !! Cus it sets with a big bang always quick! If the bottom is right !! LOL Maybe we need a better guideline then setting quickly to make a new age anchor maybe ???
__________________
Bob and Connie
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04-06-2013, 19:44
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,185
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Re: Rocna repositioned
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobconnie
Heck! If setting quickly is the thing that makes a New Age anchor, them my old Danforth sure qualifys !! Cus it sets with a big bang always quick! If the bottom is right !! LOL Maybe we need a better guideline then setting quickly to make a new age anchor maybe ???
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I put in the part about how mine resets really well.
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04-06-2013, 20:13
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
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Re: Rocna repositioned
Ya got me there Rebel lol, there have been a time or two when she reset herself, but more that I had to reset LOL but I still like to hook up both fore and aft ! if I can, and been known to change places for that reason lol !! I like my sleep ! And we can't fit anything other then a danforth without about 10 grand in changes ! so Im stuck with a 100 lb danforth on a 51 ft boat !
__________________
Bob and Connie
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06-06-2013, 20:19
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Anacortes, WA
Boat: 55' Romsdal
Posts: 2,103
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Re: Rocna repositioned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar
Roll bar anchor are designed to always put the pointy side down ASAP.
Roll Bars make it set faster no mater how she hit bottom.
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Cotemar, the video shows the problematic side to hoop anchors. Granted this is an on land test but I think its still instructive where heavier seabeds or weeds are present. Start watching around 1 minute in.
This is not to say the Manson Supreme or Rocna are not fine anchors - they are and a great improvement on many older designs, but the hoop is not part of the improvement, IMHO.
__________________
https://delfin.talkspot.com
I can picture in my head a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. - Jack Handey
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06-06-2013, 20:58
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Victoria, BC
Boat: Tanzer 7.5 sailboat | Current Designs Solstice GTS kayak
Posts: 89
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Re: Rocna repositioned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin
Cotemar, the video shows the problematic side to hoop anchors. Granted this is an on land test but I think its still instructive where heavier seabeds or weeds are present. Start watching around 1 minute in.
This is not to say the Manson Supreme or Rocna are not fine anchors - they are and a great improvement on many older designs, but the hoop is not part of the improvement, IMHO.
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What exactly is the problem? The anchor rolled over and set. The rollbar appeared to assist with this.
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06-06-2013, 21:08
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Anacortes, WA
Boat: 55' Romsdal
Posts: 2,103
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Re: Rocna repositioned
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan_za
What exactly is the problem? The anchor rolled over and set. The rollbar appeared to assist with this.
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Whether the roll bar is needed to get the anchor to set is one of the mysteries of the roll bar, since other anchors set just fine or better without one. What the video shows is that the space between the flukes and the roll bar fills up and prevents the anchor from burying any deeper. Again, hoop anchors seem to hold fine, but the hoop also serves as a backboard collecting trash preventing them from holding even better. Perhaps that's why Manson did away with it on the Boss?
__________________
https://delfin.talkspot.com
I can picture in my head a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. - Jack Handey
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06-06-2013, 22:05
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Now limited to seasonal NE sailing
Boat: PT-11
Posts: 1,541
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Re: Rocna repositioned
The manson boss actually looks a lot like the brake anchor from mondial plaisance, a French company that doesn't market their anchors widely. I recently tossed a 75lb off my boat - not because it didn't set well but because it rusted away in about 8 years.
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