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Old 28-05-2010, 14:05   #1
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Rocna as Secondary ?

I'm in the process of refitting my 34', 16,500 lb (unloaded) cutter's ground tackle and was hoping for some advice. After a fair bit of research, I've resolved that I'll be using a Rocna for the primary bow anchor, for all the reasons that have been dealt with exhaustively elsewhere on these forums. However, for my stern anchor, I'm a bit stumped. On one hand, I was thinking I should get a different anchor type to provide some versatility, but then it occurred to me that if the bottom was such that it required a different style for the stern anchor, then I should be concerned about the bow (obvious enough ... no one ever accused me of being sharp).

So, has anyone considered using two Rocna anchors - one for primary, and the other for stern? Any obvious disadvantages to that that I am overlooking? They seem to provide a lot of surface area and holding power per lb., and other than the fact that they don't collapse flat and are a bit trickier to store, I can't think of a good reason not to do this.

Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance...

Rob
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Old 28-05-2010, 14:11   #2
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The Rocna is a fantastic anchor and since you are already convinced I won't try to sell you again. One should work fine for the stern anchor, but there may be a cheaper way.

The big flaw to the Danforth is that it may foul when wind or current reverses the set. This isn't going to happen to a stern anchor. Once set a Danforth will hold with the best of them.

So I would go with the cheaper Danforth type for my stern anchor.

Having said all of the above, I anchored a hundred times on the east coast from Florida to Maine and never used a stern anchor.

David
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Old 28-05-2010, 14:26   #3
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The danforth idea sounds reasonable, but either the Rocna or the Manson Supreme would be great. I would use a smaller model which could be used in tandem with your primary anchor in a serious blow when you may be anchored in a less than perfect holding ground.
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Old 28-05-2010, 14:56   #4
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G'day Rob

The only reason I can think not buy a Rocna as your stern anchor is that they are diffucult to store because of their shape. I am currently building a new boat and have gone throught the same deliberations as you regarding bow and stern anchors. From all reports the Rocnas are holding very well in all sorts of ground except rock and coral. I don't really want to be anchoring in rock or coral anyway. As the Rocna chart suggested a 25kg would marginal and maybe just a fraction light for my boat, I've bought the 25kg for my stern anchor and I will purchase the next size up (33kg) for my bow. In reality, I will so seldom use a stern anchor, it just means that my secondary anchor is kept at the stern and I can use it over the stern or the bow as required. I would hate to be trying to pull in a well set 25kg Rocna by hand so it will probably have to retrieved at the bow so I can use the winch. Becasue the boat is a semi-custom build I am able to design the step locker in my sugar scoop to specially fit the Rocna 25. Be careful which Rocna you buy. They are all now apparently made in China. Having bought some high end Chinese built products for my work, I am deeply suspicious of anything made in China. Apparently there was a lot of trouble with the early Chinese built Rocnas. The later ones have the words "Genuine Rocna" and the size forged into the blade and are apparently OK. Certainly the welds and the finish quality on my 25kg looks fabulous. When I buy the 33kg, I will be sending it back if it doesn't have those words forged into the blade.

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Old 28-05-2010, 15:28   #5
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Cost and storage are the arguments against a Rocna for a stern anchor. No matter how you play it, Rocna/Manson Supreme just don't fit nicely on anything but an anchor platform. If you are going to put a stern anchor platform/roller on the boat, that would no longer be a concern.

Danforths are dirt cheap. There are so many on the used market, they are virtually worthless. There are several brackets available for storing them on the pulpit that make them the easiest stern anchor to store at the back. If you don't want to hang them off the pushpit, they store reasonably compactly in a locker. If you need an even smaller package in your lazarette, the aluminum Fortress breaks down into virtually nothing. Being aluminum, they are easy to muscle around on deck so you can go with a larger than required size for better holding and peace of mind. The holding power of Danforth style anchor is about the highest, pound for pound of all the anchors. They will hold in most bottoms though they don't penetrate well into hard/weed covered holding. In mud, they are unbeatable creating a problem with getting them out. I had to dive one once and literally dig it out of the bottom and pull it out backwards. It had dug itself several feet below the bottom surface and was stuck so well that it stalled the windlass, actually me cranking on the windlass. The lack of tide and wave action gave me no other way to get it out. The big failing of the Danforth is resetting after a large change in direction of pull like with a wind or tidal shift. Sometimes, not most of the time, they will skip along the bottom and not reset. This usually isn't a big deal as you almost always use the stern anchor to maintain the position of the boat irregardless of tide and wind.

BTW, the storage problem is common for all the plow pattern anchors like the CQR, Delta, Spade, etc.
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Old 28-05-2010, 15:32   #6
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FWIW,
Another vote for a Danforth style as a stern anchor. Use the money you save to buy the next bigger Rocna/Supreme for your main anchor.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Towlers Bay, NSW, Oz
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Old 28-05-2010, 16:17   #7
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Go Rocna!

Love my Rocna too...I'd consider a Fortress for my stern because of ease of storage and light weight. While I now us a danforth the Fortress is on my list...
Oh yeah, my list is getting shorter, really, very much so, definetely...
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Old 28-05-2010, 16:30   #8
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problem with a stern anchor is that it often needs to be set or retrieved without the aid of a windlass. At that point a Rocna might not be your best friend.

I supplement my Rocna primary with a couple Fortress anchors which, being made of aluminum are lighter even than a Danforth. The huge one I use as a storm anchor or a backup in case I lose the Rocna. The smaller one I use as a stern anchor.

Carrying a Rocna and two Fortress anchors is a lot less weight than were I to carry three Rocnas.

[Edit: Oops, apologies to Boomp for repeating your advice. I must have been typing when you posted.]
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Old 28-05-2010, 21:53   #9
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We have used a stern anchor twice in the last 2.5 years.

What are you intending on using it for? To keep the boat from hitting others in a tight anchorage? As a long line ashore? To protect against a gale coming from a different direction where there is no swinging room?

If its the tight anchorages and long lines ashore then a easily stowable smallish anchor with short chain(or no chain) and thin line might be far better.

For gales etc we perfer 1 anchor and long chain.

So in our case if buying a new one we woul;d buy a flat anchor with light rope rode
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Old 28-05-2010, 22:19   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSMacG View Post
However, for my stern anchor, I'm a bit stumped. On one hand, I was thinking I should get a different anchor type to provide some versatility, but then it occurred to me that if the bottom was such that it required a different style for the stern anchor, then I should be concerned about the bow (obvious enough ... no one ever accused me of being sharp).
It's a common thing to carry different types and many rush to recommend the same, "for versatility", but the reality is it's done to have a mix of the different pros and cons of poorly performing types, so each anchor is really only present to address the flaws of the other(s).

Peter has only Rocnas onboard Kiwi Roa, which has proven more than adequate in the widest range of conditions including some of the trickiest environments out there.

In the case of limited storage the only exception I would agree with would be a Danforth style, preferably a Fortress, for high holding power for its weight (efficient) and easy flat storage. However you need to be well aware of their limitations, and restrict its usage to straight-line pulls only.

You could also consider an aluminium Spade, which disassemble.

Finally, depending on your timetable, the Rocna Stowable will finally be available sometime this year. If it's the 15 kg size you want, maybe shoot me an e-mail. If I do say so myself, a Rocna is the better solution, Stowable or original, as the second anchor will then serve as a proper spare to the primary.
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Old 29-05-2010, 04:58   #11
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AND....

OK, since it's been brought up, how much is a Rocna stowable? Westmarine starts the Fortress at under $150.00

If we already own a Rocna do we get a di$count?
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Old 29-05-2010, 05:56   #12
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If we already own a Rocna do we get a di$count?
Yes my friend! Come into my emporium of Rocnas! Buy 3 Rockna stowables and receive a 4th FREE!!!! I'll personally gift wrap it! I will even attach it to your Mother-In-Law. Come, my friend....





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Old 29-05-2010, 06:20   #13
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I have a Rocna on the bow, a Delta in the lazzarette, and a Fortress on a bracket on the stern rail.
I have used the stern anchor zero times in the last five years.
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Old 29-05-2010, 08:19   #14
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I have a Fortess for a secondary. It is sized as I would for a primary, and I like the choice for 2 reasons:

  1. Kedging off. MUCH easier to tote into the tender and row out. The shape and light weight are perfect for handling in a dingy and producing a strong pull in one direction.
  2. Tide or wind change. When I set 2 anchors, it's because I expect a strong change. Typically, I will need to row out and anchor, or at least carry it around the deck, so light weight again matters. However, there is no point in having a small secondary, since 100% of the load will come onto it.
I find the Fortress stores well on edge in a deep locker. Easy to get out and out of the way. If you can make a hole for the end of the stock, it is quite stable.

A light "lunch hook" seems pointless, if you have a windlass. Just use what you have, with less scope.

You are right about variety. The only thing a Rocna is not good at is very soft mud, in which case a LARGE Fortress will do better. Again, there is no point in a small secondary; you need surface area. I would not chose a Fortress for a primary, though; it won't reset. Your Rocna sounds good.

Would a danforth do all of these things as well? Yes, but at much greater weight. Additionally, there are a lot of terrible danforth knock-offs out there that are weak or simply don't bike well. A lot of used danforths are slightly bend and don't bite.
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Old 30-05-2010, 00:23   #15
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I am a big fan of the Rocna anchor. My primary Rocna is so much better than my old plow that there is no comparison.
It is helpful, however, to have one anchor that can be easily managed in the tender. For anything but a small boat this means an aluminium anchor. So if you only have 2 I would go for a Rocna primary and Fortress (or an aluminium Spade) as stern anchor. If you can have reasonably ready access to 3 anchors 2 Rocnas and a Fortress (or an aluminium Spade) would be great
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