Rocna Anchor Failure

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by double u

you bad toxic boy...
(I wonder how it would go if Rocna sued the OP for slander...)

Libel.


And no, I don't think it went quite that far. He included an element of uncertainty.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Mr B

I have two anchors, A serious one for extreme bad weather (38 Kgs) and a smaller one for every day use, (15 kgs,)
To change from one to the other, I just change the Shackle over, and take the smaller one off,
The smaller one runs out thru the big one,
Both are securely locked down on the bow when Im travelling,
I doesnt look pretty, But it will save my boat in extreme bad weather,

Moving anchors around in bad weather and a boat thats leaping all over the place, Is a recipe for disaster,

Brian, I'm not sure t hat I understand your setup. If you are anchored with your smaller anchor and the wx turns to poop, how can you deploy the larger one if the rode for the smaller runs through the hoop of the larger?

But I agree that moving anchors of any significant size around on deck isn't a good look at sea. We've left our bower anchor in t he roller for some 150,000 miles now without mishap. It is always ready for immediate deployment, and there have been a few times when speedy access has been a welcome feature!

Jim

[sailores35]

Wrong shackle, pin not moused with safety wire. Seems mysterious

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Brian, I'm not sure t hat I understand your setup. If you are anchored with your smaller anchor and the wx turns to poop, how can you deploy the larger one if the rode for the smaller runs through the hoop of the larger?

But I agree that moving anchors of any significant size around on deck isn't a good look at sea. We've left our bower anchor in t he roller for some 150,000 miles now without mishap. It is always ready for immediate deployment, and there have been a few times when speedy access has been a welcome feature!

Jim

My deck is not sufficient or strong enough to install a second bowspit for the smaller anchor beside the main bowspit I have the big anchor in,
The main bowspit has been modified and lengthened to take the bigger anchor,
Its also welded to the Deck cleat that holds the anchor when deployed,
The big anchor has a quick release bar that holds it in place when Im travelling,

Under a heavy load while anchoring, I believe the small anchor would rip my deck out, Even if I stiffened it with a large plate under the deck,
Its not a Modification Im prepared to stake my life on,
Also the anchor chain would hit the bow if the boat turned side on as the second bowspit would be further back than the bow,

Releasing the small anchor to drop the big one in, in adverse conditions,

Is simply tying a rope to the small anchor and dropping it out the front and catching it on the front cleat, It can hang in the water till I pull it up on the rope,
This is all done before the bad weather gets to the extreme stage,
If the bad weather was going to be extreme and Im caught out in it, I wouldnt be using the small anchor any way,
I would be behind an island or in a horseshoe bay to avoid the severe high winds,
We had winds here in excess of 100 Kays last week, Its what the big anchor is for,
The week before that I was in Eden on a cruise ship, It delayed sailing for two hours when the wind was in excess of 35 knots,
The wind was directly on the beam and it would have blown the ship sideways onto the beach and taken out all the boats moored there,
I do like Captains that can think,

BOM, Have a very good weather report, If you listen to them, You know when the bad weather is going to hit, You just have to be prepared for it,

As you remember, I went from dead calm to on the beach and holes in my hulls in ten minutes, It wont happen again,
I do sail in high winds as well, They dont bother me, Ive been thru a few of them,
Cheers, Brian,

[NorthernMac]

Was it a SS?

If it was a pretty and expensive stainless my money would be on with it being in the hands of a human and not Davy Jones

[noelex 77]

Brian, I don’t like criticising other people’s boats, but with the best intentions I feel I must say something.

From the photo that anchor and bowsprit arrangement just does not look satisfactory for rough offshore conditions. There is a lot of surface area in those anchor flukes and from the photos the arrangement looks like it will exert considerable leverage on the foredeck. It is not just the anchors and bow sprit, but damage in this area will weaken the forestay attachment and risk the mast.

You obviously have a lot of metalwork skills and I think you could come up with something much better.

[Bangorang]

On my 42’ catamaran, moving our 55lb Rocna and 10’ of 1/2” chain aft to the chain locker, raised the bows ~1/2” in the water, significantly improved hobbyhorsing and sailing performance in a seaway and reduced wave strike impact and shock loading the cross beam. That is a lot of comfort and performance added on a 3 week passage, but I’d even do it for a 3 day passage.

Although I could heave the anchor back over the bow in a pinch, I also ran with a Fortress FX-37 rigged and ready at the stern as my emergency brake.

Among the monohulls it seemed about 50/50 those that would move their big anchors off the bow for a long passage.

[tomtriad]

[QUOTE=noelex 77;3026275]Whatever system you use to connect the chain to the anchor shank, it is important that it cannot lock up or jam if the chain is pulled from an unusual angle. Test this on dry land.

Often a simple single bow shackle is best and it is not difficult to select something that will be stronger than the chain even with side loading."

I agree with Noelex77; simpler is often better. The more shackles and swivels in a system, the more points of failure exist. A single moused bow shackle with pin through the anchor shank, sized as big as possible is my best bet.

My anchors are always stored off deck, attached to dedicated rodes, and ready to deploy with bitter ends secured. I would never venture offshore with anything on deck that I would not be willing to cut loose in a storm.

I also agree with Noelex 77 that threading two anchors on the bow roller, with the associated weight, windage, and wavage, and necessitating unshackling and reshackling is asking for trouble.

If the OP is correct, that the eye of the shackle pin was broken off, there may well be additional damage to the shackle which caused release of the anchor. I would examine that shackle very closely.

I also note that well made (US) galvanized shackles are far stronger and less subject to deformation than stainless steel, which is softer and more malleable. All bets are off on Chinese shackles of either material.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Brian, I don’t like criticising other people’s boats, but with the best intentions I feel I must say something.

From the photo that anchor and bowsprit arrangement just does not look satisfactory for rough offshore conditions. There is a lot of surface area in those anchor flukes and from the photos the arrangement looks like it will exert considerable leverage on the foredeck. It is not just the anchors and bow sprit, but damage in this area will weaken the forestay attachment and risk the mast.

You obviously have a lot of metalwork skills and I think you could come up with something much better.

Thats why I lengthened the bow spit, It takes the weight and the leverage well back along the deck, It stiffens up the deck as well,
The forstay attachment is now held in place by a four foot long steel stiffener beside it,
The anchor cleat is an integral part of the bowspit, Its welded to it,
Where as before it had a piece of steel one foot long beside it, The original bow spit,
Even the anchor cleat I put a large stiffener plate under the deck to give it extra strength,

The anchors are locked down tite, That quick release pin on the top, They cant move no matter how rough the sea is,
That pin has a shear force of some 13 ton minimum, So a pissy little 38 KG anchor is not going to make an impression on it. (70 Lb)

I have a tendency to over engineer things, I dont like things that break, Things I make are usually for ever,
The rest of the deck to the sides is like tissue paper, I cant do any thing with it, With out a major rebuild, And Im not going there, Hahaha

I dont mind constructive critisism, Im not God and may have missed some thing, Makes me think from a different perspective,

Cheers, Brian,

[s/v Jedi]

One (1) anchor rule. It’s there for a reason as once again demonstrated in this thread

[Jim Cate]

Releasing the small anchor to drop the big one in, in adverse conditions,

Is simply tying a rope to the small anchor and dropping it out the front and catching it on the front cleat, It can hang in the water till I pull it up on the rope,
This is all done before the bad weather gets to the extreme stage,

Brian, it sounds like when the conditions get bad you intend to raise the small anchor, switch the rode to the big one and reset... all while the "storm rages about you".

Honestly, this seems a very bad plan, one that exposes you to high risk situations... not unlike those that put you on the beach before.

My suggestion is to use the larger anchor at all times and keep t he smaller one as a stern/backup anchor with its weight somewhere other than the bow. This is what most experienced cruisers do and the plan does not really make for much extra work in your normal anchoring process. To me it is a win-win situation: you are always anchored on your best gear and you get some weight off the bow.

Jim

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

My suggestion is to use the larger anchor at all times and keep t he smaller one as a stern/backup anchor with its weight somewhere other than the bow. This is what most experienced cruisers do and the plan does not really make for much extra work in your normal anchoring process. To me it is a win-win situation: you are always anchored on your best gear and you get some weight off the bow.

+1. Biggest anchor all the time. My back-up is the same size.

[NorthernMac]

While we are talking rocna anchors and not loosing them, how’s does this look shackle and chain wise?

I’ll be attaching the other end to the rode ofcourse and also using some SS safety wire on the shackles.

The book for the anchor says for securing it as long as you have aft pressure on the roller it’s not going anywhere, should I still pin it? It’ll be mounted on my bow pulpit side roller.





SS Vulcan 27lb, 5/16 SS chain, 3/8 SS swivel and shackle, 33’ LOA cutter.

Secondary achor is a galvanized danforth style stored in the rear of the boat

The Bruce this is replacing will be used on another vessel.

[Red Sky]

For the storage at sea issue. Ours is on the bow roller drawn tight and lashed securely. We’ve always employed the thought that my wife should be able to handle everything on the boat. Moving a 33kg. Rocna in less than optimal conditions isn’t something she could do. Cut the lashing, flip the latch and loosen the capstan, yes, if necessary.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

While we are talking rocna anchors and not loosing them, how’s does this look shackle and chain wise?

I’ll be attaching the other end to the rode ofcourse and also using some SS safety wire on the shackles.

The book for the anchor says for securing it as long as you have aft pressure on the roller it’s not going anywhere, should I still pin it? It’ll be mounted on my bow pulpit side roller.





SS Vulcan 27lb, 5/16 SS chain, 3/8 SS swivel and shackle, 33’ LOA cutter.

Secondary achor is a galvanized danforth style stored in the rear of the boat

The Bruce this is replacing will be used on another vessel.

I do not like the swivel to anchor connection (side loading) and would choose a different swivel or put a shackle in between.