Open Source Anchor Project

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Here's an open source turbo charged anchor design, without any patent infringement issues to worry about. It's called the "Platypus...." designed by committee.

Doesn't need a roll-bar so I guess its' got that going for it! I'm not sure the downside of leaking oil and radiator fluid offsets that virtue though.

Then again, there's as many cars as people in this country and once we hit peak oil we won't need them so much anymore. I like your forward thinking!

[Cotemar]

Good luck mate.

Would it not be easier to just buy any one of the great new generation anchors on the market.

Didn't our government just shut down for a few weeks because they were on a fools mission to design one anchor for all, but all did not want that anchor.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Good luck mate.

Would it not be easier to just buy any one of the great new generation anchors on the market.

Didn't our government just shut down for a few weeks because they were on a fools mission to design one anchor for all, but all did not want that anchor.

Um, well, gee I guess you missed the part where one of the objectives was to enable cruising sailors to be more self-sufficient. Or maybe that is not something not something you value?

Regardless, I thank you for your elucidating comment. I think it a good idea to try to avoid some of the Prior Art demonstrated by our beloved government.

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Um, well, gee I guess you missed the part where one of the objectives was to enable cruising sailors to be more self-sufficient. Or maybe that is not something not something you value?

Regardless, I thank you for your elucidating comment. I think it a good idea to try to avoid some of the Prior Art demonstrated by our beloved government.

Oh, No. I am with you on cruising sailors to being more self-sufficient.

I make and modify my own anchors all the time, but in the end it is much cheaper and easier to buy a new generation anchor off the shelf and modify it.

Prototype anchors are expensive to make from scratch with setting up jigs and all.

Most cruisers today have a hard time finding enough time to sail, let alone design and build or modify and anchor.

[Cheechako]

Why arent anchors symmetrical? ie: no matter which way it lands, no matter if it pulls out... it is always positioned to dig in again.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Oh, No. I am with you on cruising sailors to being more self-sufficient.

I make and modify my own anchors all the time, but in the end it is much cheaper and easier to buy a new generation anchor off the shelf and modify it.

Prototype anchors are expensive to make from scratch with setting up jigs and all.

Most cruisers today have a hard time finding enough time to sail, let alone design and build or modify and anchor.

I agree with the last bit, based on the effort required to go meet a person instead of buying online being much greater, and I doubt anchor manufacturers have little to fear from the OSA.

However, with a little effort on our part it would be a lot easier if we were able to provide a successful design accessible to anyone with an internet connection.

As for the rest, $100 materials plus $150 skilled labor (2hrs at $75per) plus $50 for galvanizing gets you a decent 20k/44lb anchor for a total of three hundred bucks compared to what $475 for the online version? Does that include shipping? Not likely.

I am not sure sure there isn't a potentially worthwhile cost benefit.

Now imagine you're on Pitcairn Island and you just bent your anchor but don't know better than to grab a pipe and straighten it out. You're hearing a quote over the phone to air-freight a freaking anchor that started out life in Asia before it was chauffeured to Australia so it could find its way to you while you are leaning up against a wrecked steel fishing boat crashed on the rocks and while your boat sits rafted off another boat (thanks other boat for helping my dumb-ass out)....

Do you think you'll think the OSA wasn't worth contributing to when you had the chance?

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Why arent anchors symmetrical? ie: no matter which way it lands, no matter if it pulls out... it is always positioned to dig in again.

That would be the Danforth/Fortress, likely to fly and not reset if it pulls up.

Has great holding and is relatively lightweight. I think these two reasons are why they are preferred for stern anchors.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Delancey

I agree with the last bit, based on the effort required to go meet a person instead of buying online being much greater, and I doubt anchor manufacturers have little to fear from the OSA.

However, with a little effort on our part it would be a lot easier if we were able to provide a successful design accessible to anyone with an internet connection.

As for the rest, $100 materials plus $150 skilled labor (2hrs at $75per) plus $50 for galvanizing gets you a decent 20k/44lb anchor for a total of three hundred bucks compared to what $475 for the online version? Does that include shipping? Not likely.

I am not sure sure there isn't a potentially worthwhile cost benefit.

Now imagine you're on Pitcairn Island and you just bent your anchor but don't know better than to grab a pipe and straighten it out. You're hearing a quote over the phone to air-freight a freaking anchor that started out life in Asia before it was chauffeured to Australia so it could find its way to you while you are leaning up against a wrecked steel fishing boat crashed on the rocks and while your boat sits rafted off another boat (thanks other boat for helping my dumb-ass out)....

Do you think you'll think the OSA wasn't worth contributing to when you had the chance?

Jeepers Creepers! I never even looked at how expensive freaking stainless anchors are before. It could be you want the no-maintenance of stainless but don't give crap about impressing your friends at the dock with how shiny it is?

$700 for materials and $150 for labor? Maybe the manufacturers should be afraid, you're talking saving at least a boat unit on that deal.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Delancey

That would be the Danforth/Fortress, likely to fly and not reset if it pulls up.

Has great holding and is relatively lightweight. I think these two reasons are why they are preferred for stern anchors.

Nah, I'm talking 3 dimensional symmetry.... i guess!..... the danforth is two sided. I mean multi sided holding.... a lead ball with a shank would be the simplest version, now how can that be improved.

[s/v Beth]

I follow you up to the finances. I think I can get a new gen anchor for 10% more than you are suggesting it would cost to make it. That is not even worth it to go to the shop and get the welder out.
That said, l think open source projects produce much good in unseen ways, so the tig/mig/acetylene and plasma torch are at your disposal. If you want me to limit to one method I can do that too.
Now come up with a design everyone likes. In my lifetime..

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Nah, I'm talking 3 dimensional symmetry.... i guess!..... the danforth is two sided. I mean multi sided holding.... a lead ball with a shank would be the simplest version, now how can that be improved.

I think the problem with the lead ball is that they don't do so good on a bow roller, ha ha!

The Northill is a neat symmetrical anchor worth a mention, collapsible too! Prolly great for rock and coral. The problem there, besides having half the fluke area not doing anything most of the time and it being a non-diving type, is the fact that the lazy fluke is sitting there waiting to fowl your rode when the tide changes.

[Cheechako]

here's a rode fouler:

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

I follow you up to the finances. I think I can get a new gen anchor for 10% more than you are suggesting it would cost to make it. That is not even worth it to go to the shop and get the welder out.
That said, l think open source projects produce much good in unseen ways, so the tig/mig/acetylene and plasma torch are at your disposal. If you want me to limit to one method I can do that too.
Now come up with a design everyone likes. In my lifetime..

I see it largely as an academic exercise with the potential to make a difference even if only in a small way, much more so than sitting around bitching about manufacturers not living up to our expectations. Besides, designing stuff is fun.

I never suggested the goal should be to produce something that was all things to all people. For most of us in our suburban lives it is easier to pay a little more to support our collective habit of consumption rather than to gain the knowledge we would win for our efforts. For most that is, maybe not all.

I also think there's something to be said for actually knowing the guy who made your anchor, but I can be a bit of a people person sometimes.

Regardless of the economics, personally I think the real value to the project lies in the human potential that comes from education which is in many ways what I think the project is really about.

Let me ask you, any chance you would download and print an OSA drawing up to stuff in your papers before you go cruising far and wide? For the price of a piece of paper is it worth it to you?

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

here's a rode fouler:

Nice, call that one JAWS!

[goboatingnow]

The main issue you have with a OSA, is verifying the integrity of the final product, whereas a manufacturer that cares, will invest in quality control and certified welders etc.

Furthermore a simple "bulk buy" would be sufficient to get the pricing right on an existing commercial anchor ( with its reviews etc)

I cant see the project having either a financial or mechanical advantage and users are unlikely to subject their boats as test beds for an unproven design.

OSH has its limits

Dave