Only One Anchor

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

How do prices compare between Rocna and the Manson Supreme?? I consider Rocna too expensive also.

Here you go:

Hi All,

I wanted to add actual Manson Supreme pricing from my local distributor Hamilton Marine so Craig will have some real data as to what Manson's costs/selling prices are here in the North East USA with NO shipping.

I also posted my commercial account discount below the Manson 24lb price because that's what I pay as a commercial customer at Hamilton Marine. I did this to simply show margin as Hamilton is STILL making a nice profit off me at $204.00.

My Manson Supreme was NOT made on the North American continent and was shipped here from down under. According to Craig/Suncoast they are building the Rocna's both on the North American continent and down under so his shipping costs SHOULD be less building them here than Manson's.

To be fair I've posted Suncoast's (North American distributor of Rocna) pricing as well:

Hamilton Marine Manson Pricing 24lb.
Manson Supreme 24lb.
List Price: $393.95 / EACHSelling Price: $257.99 / EACHMy discount:$204.00 / EACH

Suncoast Marine Rocna Pricing 22lb.
Rocna 22lb.
List Price: $430.00
Sale Price:$365.00
PLUS SHIPPING TO US LOCATION

Price differential = +$107.01 for the Rocna Plus Shipping

__________________________________

Hamilton Marine Manson Pricing 35lb.
Manson Supreme 35lb.
List Price: $568.95 / EACHSelling Price: $377.99 / EACHSuncoast Marine Rocna Pricing 33lb.
Rocna 33lb.
List Price: $515.00
Sale Price:$449.00
PLUS SHIPPING TO US LOCATION

Price differential = +$71.01 for the Rocna Plus Shipping
_______________________________

Hamilton Marine Manson Pricing 46lb.
Manson Supreme 46lb.
List Price: $724.95 / EACHSelling Price: $449.99 / EACHSuncoast Marine Rocna Pricing 44lb.
Rocna 44lb.
List Price: $675.00
Sale Price:$599.00
PLUS SHIPPING TO US LOCATION

Price differential = +$149.01 for the Rocna Plus Shipping

_________________________________

Hamilton Marine Manson Pricing 59lb.
Manson Supreme 59lb.
List Price: $954.95 / EACHSelling Price: $619.99 / EACHSuncoast Marine Rocna Pricing 55lb.
Rocna 55lb.
List Price: $815.00
Sale Price:$725.00
PLUS SHIPPING TO US LOCATION

Price differential = +$105.01 for the Rocna Plus Shipping





P.S. I paid over $100.00 for shipping on my Rocna 33lb..

Craig we NEED a better dealer network in the United States and special ordering from West Marine at FULL list price is just NOT competitive...

I wan't Craig to succeed and I feel the Rocna is the finest anchor being built today! he should not be letting a knock off, like the Manson, become the next Bruce or CQR...

[GMac]

Err jdoe71, I don't see anyone disrespecting anyones flag and I very much doubt anyone here would intentionally.

Anywho -
Have a suss around at the number of times you see a Delta advert. They are everywhere and the total cost must add up to a very pretty penny. Marketing does add up fast. Craig Rocna has gone a differing route than a few but I'm sure the marketing money they have spent, even so wisely, still is a significant number.

The Supreme does have quite a significant price advantage.

Manson run the Lloyds thing for a couple of reasons. One being as they are an 'approved manufacturer' getting an anchor Lloyd's up is a lot quicker and easier. As mentioned above the superboats/commercial very often require some certification, often that is Lloyds but they can cross-certify with some of the other Societies. Manson do make a significant number of the superboat anchors inc 200kg plus Supremes by the way. They also use Lloyds as their Quality Assurance company, what ever it's called sort of thing. Bit like that ISO9002 QA thing.

Not all Classification Societies are accepted by all or cross-classify with each other. ABS often will not take Lloyds for example even though much of the ABS rules are direct copies (?? same as) of Lloyds. Many suspect this is more $$ related though sadly.

Aren't those Lighthouse winches a sexy bit of gear. Bloody lovely things.

Not the dodgy knock-off thing again. The 2 Spade Anchor derivatives , Supreme and Rocna arriving at the same time was purely coincidence nothing more and nothing less.

[High Cotton]

How 'bout this one from one our more "popular" retail stores and their "supply" company:

ROCNA

RETAIL: $ 659.99
WHOLESALE: $ 637.99
DIFFERENCE: $ 22,00 !

MANSON SUPREME:

RETAIL: $ 464.99
WHOLESALE: $ 329.99
DIFFERENCE: $ 145.00 !

Sooooooooo..........
price difference (for the same weight anchor) between ROCNA and MANSON SUPREME..

drum roll please...........

$ 308.00 (wholesale difference)
$ 195.00 (retail difference)

[OldYachtie]

Seer, this is a place to post stuff about sailing, sailboats, sailing destinations etc. I am sure that there are a lot of great political, news, and current events websites where you could post your last post.

Meanwhile, back to anchors. In the US, a 20 kilo Rocna is $600, and a 20 kilo galvanized Manson Supreme is is $435-but a 45 kilo Manson is $1200, and a 55 kilo Rocna is the same. See defender.com and suncoastmarine.ca A Delta 40 kilo anchor (their biggest size) is $560 and their 20 kilo anchor is $180 at onlinemarine.com . But, check "shipping" prices, since they may not be as equal as they should be.

[Seeratlas]

I hear you Yachtie, I'm done

Gotta go find some 52's or 58's that I don't need a new mortgage for heheh

Don't know as I could whip those up with a welder <wink>

seer

[S/V Elusive]

Let me see ... Okay .. here it is .. the next three .. no, make it four people who bring politics up in some means or wants to tout or wank some country ... gets to take a vacation for a week. And, then I'll close this thread. You've all been asked nicely and can't seem to understand simple words spoken in our common language. This thread is about anchors ... care to continue?

Thomas
Cruiser's Forum Moderator

[S/V Elusive]

Okay!! One down 3 to go. NEXT???

[GMac]

As we are all now back on anchor track may I ask the forums view on 3 statements and 1 question.

S1, When I pick an anchor 'holding power' is the main purchasing decision.

This a sort of 'is holding power the be all to end all' when choosing an anchor thing. Obviously 'holding power' should be prefaced with 'alleged or reported'.

S2, If Anchor A holds X amount I won't (don't want too, can't see the point, sort of thing) pay a significant amount more to get Anchor B which is reported to hold 25% more.

This one is a 'how much more are you willing to pay' to get the latest and greatest. I know many who are more than happy with their current CQR, Bruce or whatever but also many who do 'need' (rightly or wrongly) to have more even if they generally will never use it. I'm just trying to gauge which group is the largest.

S3, When deciding on an anchor I always consider it in conjunction with the rode behind it.

I.e. do you consider anchors by themselves or do you think of them as just part of your 'anchoring system'

Q1, Is your purchasing decision influenced by 'endorsements'.

For example Rocna use Steve D a lot in their marketing. Manson have the ability to say the worlds top boat designers specify their gear, CQR/Delta use British lifeboats and other makers have their people, that sort of thing. How much does things like this come into your decision is what I'm after.

[OldYachtie]

The problem with "holding power" is that it varies with the bottom. IMHO, the Rocna/Manson Supreme type is best in the typical sand or firm mud bottom, but the Fortress is best in soft bottoms, and the Admiralty pattern is best in rock/coral/super deep anchorages. The Admiralty pattern anchor is best in super deep anchorages because it will stick with less scope-even as low as 2:1. The Rocna/Manson Supreme is the best generalist, if you must pick one. You must have more than one anchor for several reasons-Hurricanes, wind vs. tide, and the possibility of losing an anchor.

"S1, When I pick an anchor 'holding power' is the main purchasing decision."

[GMac]

Absolutely there OY but I'm (usually always) talking an 'average holding power' type thing. Some anchors do like some bottoms over others.

On 'average' the Spade type (inc derivatives like the Rocna and Supreme. Me stirring? never ) do get higher loads than most others.

The question I posed was more a general is holding power all you think about rather than anything type specific.

[Pblais]

You must have more than one anchor for several reasons-Hurricanes, wind vs. tide, and the possibility of losing an anchor.

You can also lose a rode with a perfectly set anchor too. You need multiple anchors as well as rodes. A second anchor can be handy for a lot of reasons. I like having a small lunch hook on the stern for those emergencies where the boat is no longer in control. For rodes you just can beat all chain on the primary. Perhaps an 8 strand nylon with a boat length or two of chain for a secondary that is longer than the primary too.

Anchoring is a total package not just about one anchor. It includes options and multiple points of failure and the skills to use them all. Selection of the anchor is only a small part of the whole solution. It's not unimportant or you wouldn't need one but it's not the major part.

[How much does things like this come into your decision is what I'm after.

Not much. I suppose if someone wants to pay me for an endorsement we can talk about it. I can't say I've ever been convinced any of the anchor tests really worked as far as a real test that measure "holding power". Only the people that win claim them to be accurate. There are enough variables in real anchoring to cast doubt on any of it. You pull up to a spot and really don't know what is down there unless you dive the location.

[JackSpade]

We use a 45# CQR as aprimary with 150' of chain.
Sometimes in sand in St Martin and the BVI we've had better results with a Fortress and 12' of chain.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by JackSpade

We use a 45# CQR as aprimary with 150' of chain.
Sometimes in sand in St Martin and the BVI we've had better results with a Fortress and 12' of chain.

Ouch!!............

[GMac]

Originally Posted by Pblais

I suppose if someone wants to pay me for an endorsement we can talk about it.

Nice

I can't say I've ever been convinced any of the anchor tests really worked as far as a real test that measure "holding power". Only the people that win claim them to be accurate. There are enough variables in real anchoring to cast doubt on any of it. You pull up to a spot and really don't know what is down there unless you dive the location.

Paul you are indeed a wise man.

If you look around you'll find you be surprised to see you don't actually have to win to claim you did Last count 3 had claimed they won that last Sail one. One even claimed they won with an anchor that they or anyone actually make.

re the holding power bit: that's why I always talk in 'averages'. Some anchors excel in only a few bottom types but can be marginal in others eg. danforth patterns, grapnels. Others cover a larger range eg Spades, Rocnas, Supremes etc but even those have failings in some spots. Hence when I say for example "the Spade has very high holding power" I should really write "On average across a range of bottom types you will generally get high loads with a Spade anchor than most others".

Oh oh.. Seafox is playing with matches, naughty naughty Seafox. Off to bed with no dinner for you young lad or maybe a vacation No panic Thomas chucked a bucket of water on him. Nice shot there T

And why is Jack SPADE using a CQR? I suppose jackcqr just doesn't have the same ring about it It's not really that strange Jack can get a result like that. Fortress's are damn good in soft bottoms and can easily out do most others in situations like those. Swap to a hard bottom and I think you'll find the CQR will better.

We have one spot we play with anchors in and it's like real thick vege soup on the bottom, it's a popular heavily frequented bay and well plowed up. A danforth pattern anchor, like a Fortress, frequently works a pile better than the others even the new ones.

[MidLandOne]

Originally Posted by GMac

S1, When I pick an anchor 'holding power' is the main purchasing decision.

Absolutely, thats why I sail around with a 5 tonne block of concrete on the bow, never dragged with that . Was cheap too.

But seriously, I suspect all round the "spade derived anchors" are all pretty much of a muchness if considered as being just the lumpy end of the whole anchoring system. However, for the current boat (40 foot) we have used a 60lb Manson plough for 11 years (we always anchor) and never had a problem including winds strong enuff to have 12 tonnes of boat a shakin'. We have a spare of the same in case we lose that but has never happened. Also have another at the recommended size for the boat (forgotten what size cos haven't seen it for a while in the bottom of the forepeak) which I got in case I needed something a bit lighter to carry around the deck. It too, has never been needed. So unless the dreaded anchor stealer comes avisiting I won't be in the anchor market for a while .

Originally Posted by GMac

S2, If Anchor A holds X amount I won't (don't want too, can't see the point, sort of thing) pay a significant amount more to get Anchor B which is reported to hold 25% more.

I think there are too many variables for anyone to say that this anchor is 25% (or whatever) better than that anchor. So anyone claiming that probably wouldn't get my business (keeping in mind that I am already up to my nose in anchors ).

Originally Posted by GMac

S3, When deciding on an anchor I always consider it in conjunction with the rode behind it.

Yes.

Originally Posted by GMac

Q1, Is your purchasing decision influenced by 'endorsements'.

No. In fact in one case I know the statements from the company are just snake oil and and the endorsements are just from followers high on snake oil so regardless of the competence of that anchor I wouldn't buy one (pure spite, you understand ).

Oh, would probably go for a Supreme myself. Not cos I reckon it is the best thing since sliced bread (which I understand the Rocna actually is ) but because I suspect it will do the job good enuff and they are a business like bunch, rather than some others who strike me as being cowboys . Next would be a Spade, even though buying one probably doesn't help Alain's grocery bills anymore but at least would not be contributing to that of anothers (must do something about this spite problem ).