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Old 06-10-2022, 09:05   #166
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Re: Ok guys, anchors question

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I think we mostly agree, but when you end up with a pile of chain on the seabed, you did wrong. Maybe we are spoiled with our Maxwell windlass, but we can set the clutch so that it stops as soon as the anchor hits the seabed, then lays out the chain in a straight line as the bow moves back downwind.

I would assume every windlass can do this as long as they are properly maintained and the clutch isn’t seized or corroded etc.
Agreed, I'd expect any windlass with a variable clutch can do this once the technique is developed. Other than the speed of the initial drop to the seabed, the same applies to a power drop (unless you have a really slow windlass). The power drop just requires some attention to boat speed to avoid the rode going tight before you're done deploying.
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Old 06-10-2022, 09:07   #167
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Re: Ok guys, anchors question

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I think we mostly agree, but when you end up with a pile of chain on the seabed, you did wrong. Maybe we are spoiled with our Maxwell windlass, but we can set the clutch so that it stops as soon as the anchor hits the seabed, then lays out the chain in a straight line as the bow moves back downwind.

I would assume every windlass can do this as long as they are properly maintained and the clutch isn’t seized or corroded etc.

It's all very easy and obvious with a manual windlass .
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Old 06-10-2022, 09:13   #168
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Re: Ok guys, anchors question

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I think we mostly agree, but when you end up with a pile of chain on the seabed, you did wrong. Maybe we are spoiled with our Maxwell windlass, but we can set the clutch so that it stops as soon as the anchor hits the seabed, then lays out the chain in a straight line as the bow moves back downwind.

I would assume every windlass can do this as long as they are properly maintained and the clutch isn’t seized or corroded etc.
My windlass does not stop veering when the anchor hits bottom unless I stop (brake) it, as far as I know. However, the clutch is always fully open. The chain suspended between the anchor and the windlass continues to fall, etc. So I must pay attention to how many feet are going, or have gone, out.
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Old 06-10-2022, 09:49   #169
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Re: Ok guys, anchors question

I have spent many hours watching anchors on the seabed, including observing boats as they drop their anchor.

Using the windlass clutch or powering down are both valid options for dropping the anchor. Under most circumstances both techniques can be used successfully without piling up the chain or moving the anchor before enough chain has been deployed.

The exception is when anchoring with strong wind. In these circumstances the downwind drift rate is higher than the maximum payout speed of windlass and the anchor will be dragged along the bottom before enough scope is deployed for it to dig in. This can be detrimental in some substrates such as weed. Thus in strong wind using the clutch is preferable or even mandatory in rare circumstances.

Likewise, using the clutch can occasionally cause problems if the chain pile has fallen over, trapping some chain. In these circumstances releasing the clutch does not release the chain and the anchor can be dragged along the seabed.

I think the best policy is to use either technique depending on the circumstances.
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Old 06-10-2022, 10:29   #170
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Re: Ok guys, anchors question

Actually, when I think about it more, it seems to me that only “necessity” for power windlasses is to haul up the anchor and tackle. Sailing vessels of old did not use power windlasses since there were none. No Diesel engines and no batteries, etc. Some years ago I sailed on a windjammer out of Camden. It was the first or second cruise of the schooner (splashed in 1962) with a combustion engine-powered windlass (maybe capstan) aboard to raise the anchor. (Crew and passengers evidently were not having enough fun marching the anchor capstan around to the tune of “Heave away me Johnnies!”) I wonder if the power-Down function of today’s power windlass began as a sales gimmick. “Say! You get two switches instead of one; two functions for the price of one!” Except rarely, I use the power down function only when I want to get the chain out of the locker and off the boat onto a dock. But even then, it’s almost faster to just pull it out from the dock side. Around anchorages I probably see 3:1 in favor of power-down when anchoring, maybe more.
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Old 06-10-2022, 10:48   #171
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Re: Ok guys, anchors question

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Actually, when I think about it more, it seems to me that only “necessity” for power windlasses is to haul up the anchor and tackle. Sailing vessels of old did not use power windlasses since there were none. No Diesel engines and no batteries, etc. Some years ago I sailed on a windjammer out of Camden. It was the first or second cruise of the schooner (splashed in 1962 ) with a diesel-powered windlass (maybe capstan) aboard to raise the anchor. (Crew and passengers evidently were not having enough fun manually turning the anchor windlass to the tune of “Heave away me Johnnies!”) I wonder if the power-Down function of today’s power windlass is mostly a sales gimmick. Hey! You get two switches instead of one; two functions for the price of one! Except rarely, I use the power down function only when I want to get the chain out of the locker and off the boat onto a dock. But even then, it’s almost faster to just pull it out from the dock side. Around anchorages I probably see 3:1 in favor of power down when anchoring, maybe more.
It's one of those features that's an almost freebie. It doesn't take much extra hardware to make the motor run both directions instead of just 1. On a really slow windlass I can't see power down being useful, but on a fast windlass it gives flexibility to deploy with a remote or from a switch at the helm if needed (so you can deploy without standing right at the windlass).
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Old 06-10-2022, 11:42   #172
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Re: Ok guys, anchors question

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My windlass does not stop veering when the anchor hits bottom unless I stop (brake) it, as far as I know. However, the clutch is always fully open. The chain suspended between the anchor and the windlass continues to fall, etc. So I must pay attention to how many feet are going, or have gone, out.
The way you describe this, you don’t have a clutch? A clutch is variable, not fully open or closed. This sounds like your clutch plates are corroded or maybe one side seized. It is supposed to tighten gradually, from full open, to a small resistance and gradually to more and more resistance until it completely holds full load.

Maintain the clutch: https://www.boatus.com/expert-advice...ss-maintenance
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Old 06-10-2022, 11:48   #173
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Re: Ok guys, anchors question

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It's all very easy and obvious with a manual windlass .
I know there are many types of windlass but all the ones I know work exactly like a manual windlass. I also remember many electric ones that had electric up only.

I use electric down to feed out a little extra chain when ai set a snubber, or when it’s gonna blow. Lowering has always been done using a clutch.
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Old 06-10-2022, 11:53   #174
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Re: Ok guys, anchors question

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The way you describe this, you don’t have a clutch? A clutch is variable, not fully open or closed. This sounds like your clutch plates are corroded or maybe one side seized. It is supposed to tighten gradually, from full open, to a small resistance and gradually to more and more resistance until it completely holds full load.

Maintain the clutch: https://www.boatus.com/expert-advice...ss-maintenance
Of course I do, friction clutch. It can be manually tightened/loosened; it’s just that when I run the chain out it is loosened completely (runs free). Chain runs out until I manually tighten (brake) it; chain does not stop on its own. I’ve not experimented with adjusting the friction plate so chain would halt when the anchor hits bottom. Is that what yours does? Did I misunderstand? The weight of the suspended chain keeps “pulling.”, etc.
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Old 06-10-2022, 12:04   #175
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Re: Ok guys, anchors question

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I use electric down to feed out a little extra chain when ai set a snubber, or when it’s gonna blow. Lowering has always been done using a clutch.
Yes, likewise. Good point.
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Old 06-10-2022, 12:09   #176
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Re: Ok guys, anchors question

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Of course, friction clutch. It can be manually tightened/loosened; it’s just that when the chain goes out it is loosened completely (runs free). Chain runs out until the clutch is manually tightened; does not stop on its own. I’ve not experimented with adjusting the friction plate so chain would halt when the anchor its bottom Is that what your does? Did I misunderstand?
My clutch control is a wheel/nut. Let me describe my routine: my anchor isn’t self launching, I need to kick it out. So I first pull out a foot of chain using the electric down button, then kick the anchor out. The foot of chain is just enough to allow it to be self launching from that point, so in case your anchor does self launch, you start from here:

I use electric down to let the anchor move off the roller and hang down just above the water. I signal the helmsman where to go and when to stop. I wait until I see we just start moving backwards, then I release the clutch to the point that the anchor goes down, not further. If it’s deep and it starts running too fast (see YouTube videos on this going out of hand of big ships), then I tighten the clutch a bit to slow down. While the anchor goes down, the clutch isn’t fully open; it requires the pull from the anchor weight to pull chain out.

When the anchor hits bottom, this pull has stopped and there is no chain fed out, but as the bow moves back, it pulls chain out. If not, loosen the clutch a bit more. Now count chain markers or watch chain counter for a 3:1 scope, then start tightening the clutch to set the anchor. When that’s done you can either open the clutch for final scope, or use electric down. I normally just leave it at 3:1 because that’s good up to 50 knots for us.
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Old 06-10-2022, 12:20   #177
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Re: Ok guys, anchors question

OK. I’ll try your more “iterative” approach next time I go out, which will likely be soon!
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Old 06-10-2022, 12:45   #178
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Re: Ok guys, anchors question

One reason why I can let the chain veer out fast with the clutch fully loosened is b/c I have stainless steel chain. It does not kink or foul in the gypsy, etc. The chain whips out pretty fast. Most of the veering is done in very few seconds at my common depths. I’ll check that next time, too.
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Old 06-10-2022, 13:01   #179
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Re: Ok guys, anchors question

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Very rarely used that way these days , some vertical windless have no gravity drop option at all.
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I would not size an anchor to make it suitable as an emergency brake.

I have to stretch my imagination to picture a situation where I would use the anchor as an emergency brake (like being in motion and wanting to stop).
If you have a windlass that doesn't allow you to free-drop your anchor, then you should replace said windlass. Most emergency equipment is "rarely used", otherwise it wouldn't be "emergency" equipment. Exceptions for Captains Calamitous.

Many jurisdictions require anchors as "safety equipment" and even those that don't require them, recognize that particular use for anchors, so I don't think it should be that big of a stretch for anyone's imagination.

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