Oh No! Ten Knots!

[noelex 77]

Last night the average wind rose to about 10 Knots with gusts to 15.
Unfortunately with the hard sand in the area it is not unusual for boats to drag even in these begin conditions and with an achorage only 3.5m (10 feet) deep.
A Bavaria 30 was anchored upwind of me with a Delta anchor and very little scope.They anchored 3 times and each time when trying to set they flew backwards with even moderate reverse revolutions. The forth time they did not use any reverse so of course held in less than 5K of breeze.
There were thunderstorms in the distance with a predicted NW wind. So I set an offset anchor alarm. We were still lying almost directly over the anchor so I set an alarm that would wake me if the wind started to straighten our chain and the boat moved to the SE . The concerning boat was to the NW.
At 4 AM it went off. The Bavaria was dragging, but fortunately for me the wind was more Northerly and as I got up the Bavaria crashed into a Canadian boat upwind. I do not think there was much damage, but still an unplesent wake up call. The Bavaria spent the next 2 hours trying to get their anchor to hold.
Meanwile a second boat also dragged. This was more of a mystery the also had a Delta, but layed out plenty of scope. The Yacht was a racing Yacht with very thin chain and a very small anchor.
All this in 10 Knots of breeze, and some people wonder why there is so much discussion on anchoring techniques and anchor types.

[markpj23]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

....All this in 10 Knots of breeze, and some people wonder why there is so much discussion on anchoring techniques and anchor types.

The question in my mind is why some people never set an anchor alarm!!

[hanschristian38]

Originally Posted by markpj23

The question in my mind is why some people never set an anchor alarm!!

Because they tend to wake you up in the middle of the night.

[Cheechako]

Must be real hard sand there? I had excellent results with the Delta through out the caribe.....Set first time every time.... well.... pretty much anyway... even with my 42 Cat which had a lot of windage. The deltas only failing seems to be strong wind and a major direction change, then they pull out every time.... Not that that isnt an important flaw!

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by markpj23

The question in my mind is why some people never set an anchor alarm!!

Yes it has saved me a few times and I always set one.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

The deltas only failing seems to be strong wind and a major direction change, then they pull out every time.... Not that that isnt an important flaw!

...is that the Delta won't ever set permanently in silt or soft mud. It tends to want to plow once the breeze pipes up

It should be pointed out the Delta is not completely worthless. I was able to trade the Delta 44 that came with my boat for a nice bottle of wine.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Must be real hard sand there? I had excellent results with the Delta through out the caribe.....Set first time every time.... well.... pretty much anyway... even with my 42 Cat which had a lot of windage. The deltas only failing seems to be strong wind and a major direction change, then they pull out every time.... Not that that isnt an important flaw!

I think the Bavaria was just on too little scope and I suspect a different anchor would not have helped much. I don't know why the other boat dragged I watched him set as he had a retractable bow roller which intrigued me. He let out plenty of scope and set the anchor well. I have just seen him leave the anchorage and had another look at his anchor. The Delta was small, but considering it was a lightweight racing yacht not stupidly so.
The wind had shifted about 120 degrees since he set so your experience with the Delta not coping with a direction change, especially in the hard sand, may be the answer.
I am still suprised a boat with plenty of scope could drag in 10 knots

[Cheechako]

I suppose so on the plowing, The Bruce seems to be the worst for that, I would imagine the Delta and CQR are similar.... although the CQR will fall over on it's side and be worse... it will deal with wind change a little better. I didnt have much problem with plowing in mud with my Deltas, but mostly used them in sand. I would guess the Danforth is the best in mud and silt.... You must be going up the delta huh?

[Cheechako]

yea, 10 knots is real surprising, must have been rope rode?

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

You must be going up the delta huh?

...we anchor up there for a few weeks every summer. No matter how long we stay, it's never enough.

Excited to field test a new solar panel array up there in August. Assuming I'm able to build the array in July.

[swagman]

Originally Posted by Bash

...is that the Delta won't ever set permanently in silt or soft mud. It tends to want to plow once the breeze pipes up

It should be pointed out the Delta is not completely worthless. I was able to trade the Delta 44 that came with my boat for a nice bottle of wine.

Tosh.
I've had Deltas, CQR's, Danforth, all fine when set correctly.
But as opposed to your view, our best all round performer has been the Deltas.

JOHN

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

yea, 10 knots is real surprising, must have been rope rode?

All boats in the anchorage are on all chain. With only a 3.5m depth so you don't need much chain to achieve an all chain rode.
The grip the chain applies (ignoring the effect of the anchor completely) is dependent on the depth and bottom type. With 13mm chain I normally find it needs 15 to 20 knots before we even straighten out the chain and put any force on the anchor, but in a shallow anchorage, with less chain out, and a hard bottom 10 to 15 knots will start to put some force on the anchor.
The theoretical models suggest at about 35 to 40 knots most of the chain will be off the bottom and the drag it exerts can be ignored.

[Cheechako]

I agree, I've snorkeled the anchor a lot in the Caribe and at 30knots in 13 ft of water (Probably 5-6 scope) the chain is still buried......

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by swagman

Tosh.
I've had Deltas, CQR's, Danforth, all fine when set correctly.
But as opposed to your view, our best all round performer has been the Deltas.

JOHN

Swagman you have certainly done the miles and seen your share of anchorages so your possitve experience with the Delta is reasuring
Despite last night experience I would agree the Delta is better then the Plough and Bruce. Not sure about the Danforth some seem to perform terribly others set well. My Fortress FX37 Kedge (which seems a slightly modified danforth) held a friends catamaran when his 60lb Bruce would not hold. This was in reasonably hard sand not soft mud where the danforths excell. There is a question mark over their ability to reset with a change in direction however.