New Windlass: Lewmar, Maxwell, Lofrans Or?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by SailRedemption

Does anyone know if the Maxwell RC series vertical windlasses can be used as a capstan (when fitted with capstan on top) separately from the gypsy? I read that the VWC series has a independent control of each, but unclear of the RC..

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One thing to think about related to this: Your anchor should be on a snubber, or on a chain stopper, so doesn't need to be in the windlass if you want to use the capstan .

[Sandero]

Here is a thought... please comment.

When you retrieve an anchor... that's where windlass size matters.

So under light / normal conditions... there is a catenary in the chain.. and when you press the "in" button the windlass pulls chain in and the catenary is "gone" . The weight of the chain is supposed to "pull" a new catenary and in so doing gets the boat moving toward the anchor. You won't have to motor TO the anchor in THESE conditions.. and all the windlass is doing is "straightening out" the chain... removing the catenary. The chain's weight is what's moving the boat.

Which leads me to the conclusion that heavier chain would be better the THAT purpose... AND the power of the windlass is not critical as long as it can "straighten" the chain.

Conclusion IF you are not going to power up to the anchor... a "small" windlass will suffice and if you are going to motor to the anchor... likewise a "small" windlass will suffice.

Is there anything wrong with this logic?

I suppose the issue is the power required to remove a catenary in X feet of Y/ft# of chain.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by Sandero

Here is a thought... please comment.

Is there anything wrong with this logic?

You are picturing a perfect world. You want the biggest baddest windlass you can afford or have room for. Stuff happens and you need the thing to be durable. If you are going with a lightweight electric you would probably be better off with a mechanical. It won't quit on you at 2 am.

[Sandero]

Originally Posted by Guy

You are picturing a perfect world. You want the biggest baddest windlass you can afford or have room for. Stuff happens and you need the thing to be durable. If you are going with a lightweight electric you would probably be better off with a mechanical. It won't quit on you at 2 am.

For example... what would be the reason... not to use a VWC 1000 vs a VWC1500. I have had both on the same boat and find the difference for MOST situations negligible. When the conditions are more than light powering up is what you need to do ANYWAY.

One can save weight and money also for the wiring.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Sandero

Here is a thought... please comment.

When you retrieve an anchor... that's where windlass size matters.

So under light / normal conditions... there is a catenary in the chain.. and when you press the "in" button the windlass pulls chain in and the catenary is "gone" . The weight of the chain is supposed to "pull" a new catenary and in so doing gets the boat moving toward the anchor. You won't have to motor TO the anchor in THESE conditions.. and all the windlass is doing is "straightening out" the chain... removing the catenary. The chain's weight is what's moving the boat.

Which leads me to the conclusion that heavier chain would be better the THAT purpose... AND the power of the windlass is not critical as long as it can "straighten" the chain.

Conclusion IF you are not going to power up to the anchor... a "small" windlass will suffice and if you are going to motor to the anchor... likewise a "small" windlass will suffice.

Is there anything wrong with this logic?

I suppose the issue is the power required to remove a catenary in X feet of Y/ft# of chain.

I agree with you... generally. I think people that worry about pulling your boat up to the anchor with the windlass are worrying too much.... for the same reasons you mention.
However, unplanned things happen. Even if you motor up to the anchor, if the boat is pitching in wind waves etc, sooner or later you are going to snub up tight and the windlass shaft will have to take the load. That's why you should buy one size bigger windlass. Murphy requires you take that step.

[SailRedemption]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

One thing to think about related to this: Your anchor should be on a snubber, or on a chain stopper, so doesn't need to be in the windlass if you want to use the capstan .

I understand that, I meant if say your anchor is secured on deck/in roller and your at a dock and want to use the capstan to tighten another dock line. Can the gypsy be released while doing this, is what I meant.

I sent an email to maxwell and Hey said this about the two windlasses:

"s, you can run the capstan separately *from the chain wheel. This happens when you have released the clutch nut. The capstan will always turn when the windlass is run because it is driven by a key connected to the shaft.

On the RC unit you will have to have the anchor secured so it will not free fall ( always recommended no matter what)

On the VWC series , there is a pawl on the deck plate to lock the chain wheel so it will not free fall."

My next question for them is, it seems that the RC unit only free falls? Is there not a brake of some sort to keep it from falling?

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[model 10]

Originally Posted by Sandero

For example... what would be the reason... not to use a VWC 1000 vs a VWC1500. I have had both on the same boat and find the difference for MOST situations negligible. When the conditions are more than light powering up is what you need to do ANYWAY.

One can save weight and money also for the wiring.

Oh sure, I 'm with you on 1000 vs 1500 watt. I thought you were talking about those little jobs you see on power boats.

[JMK]

I have a question or two related to this thread that I'm hoping people will respond to. We purchased a Gulfstar 44 a few months ago that came with a seized manual windlass (SL). The anchor is a 25kg/55# Rocna. I need to replace the windlass. (No joy in getting it fixed after taking it apart.) I can't find a manual windlass big enough for a 55# anchor so I'm looking at an electric model.

My first question is which is more popular/reliable - a horizontal or vertical windlass? The previous manual was a horizontal model.

My second question is - which electric windlass models have a functional manual mode in the event of power failure?

And last - is there a manual windlass model I have missed that would work with a 55# anchor? Simple is always better in my mind so one less electrical item to worry about would be nice.

Thanks,
J.M.

[JMK]

Ok - so further research has led me to conclude that my anchor locker would be better served with a horizontal windlass, so that question has been answered.

I currently have a 55# Rocna on 250 ft of 5/16" high test chain. The Ideal windlass looks great, but they are not small. The Lewmar H2 looks like the SL. I guess that's related to the fact that Lewmar bought SL...??? The Maxwell HRC are certainly smaller, but how does their aluminum/composite cover construction hold up? Also, I couldn't readily find any information about how any of these windlasses would function manually.

Thanks again,
J.M.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by JMK

Ok - so further research has led me to conclude that my anchor locker would be better served with a horizontal windlass, so that question has been answered.

I currently have a 55# Rocna on 250 ft of 5/16" high test chain. The Ideal windlass looks great, but they are not small. The Lewmar H2 looks like the SL. I guess that's related to the fact that Lewmar bought SL...??? The Maxwell HRC are certainly smaller, but how does their aluminum/composite cover construction hold up? Also, I couldn't readily find any information about how any of these windlasses would function manually.

Thanks again,
J.M.

I just bought a used Lofrans Tigress on Ebay to replace my Simpson Lawrence. From the research I've done this appears to be a high quality unit that's proved to be very reliable. It also can be used manually & would be big enough to fit your needs. They're available new from several outlets including Defender. However, going from manual to electric is a big change. This is a fairly complicated system & the wiring has to be quite substantial so it's expensive. I'm going from electric to electric & I'm staying with the same size motor so I'm hoping this will be plug & play for me.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by GMac

Buy the product not the brand.

Lewmars bigger winches are good, the smaller ones are built to a price and the most common found on the marina seabeds.

Lofrans horizontals are great, verticals good but not as great.

The Maxwell RC range it kicking butt worldwide. Their newish HRCs not quite so much so but they are working very well.

Being in the game I tell our punters
- DO NOT pick a winch based on the motor wattage, the grunt is in the gearbox not the motor.
- DO NOT believe most of the published load numbers, most are only achievable in ideal conditions and hardly ever are those found on the bow of a boat. In testing Maxwells numbers are easily the closest to 'most likely to be seen ion a boat' i.e. life like, but they still have a small element of hard to get on a boat.

- Look closely to find the number that is the 'day in day out max working load'. Many manufacturers publish load numbers that look impressive but hunt and find the Max working load only to see it's tiny. What many claim as 'max pull' is snatch loads i.e. what the winch can do for 2-3 seconds before tapering back hard.... or blowing up.
- What ever you get if you do a half arsed wiring job it will perform like pooh. DO NOT shortcut on the wiring, that's a game only for fools.

If looking for a vertical Rope to chain which for 8mm (5/16") chain I'd go for Maxwell RC8 first. Seeing what's going on out there each day that RC range does currently have a edge over the others. If I wanted a Horizontal for 8mm I'd probably be tossing up between a Maxwell HRC8 and a Lofrans Cayman (the 1000W model). The HRC is newer but the Cayman has a huge fan based built over a long time and it's hard to ignore things like that.

As an other input worth a small thought. Maxwell has cracked the multifit gypsy thing nicely on their smaller end (up to 12/13mm 1/2" chain area) so if you have a say Maxwell RC8 running 8mm metric chain and lose that chain in US territory you can drop imperial 5/16" in, or vice a versa, without having to change the gypsy. That can save big bucks sometimes. But then Maxwell and Lewmar replacement gypsy prices are far far lower than all the others.

I have a large Lewmar windlass (Ocean 3), and would not agree that it is all that good. The below deck motor housing is plain steel poorly painted, and rusts (naturally, since sea water will drip on it because of the design). My previous one simply rusted through and i had to replace it at great expense. I am trying to keep this one treated. These windlasses are not made for long life, with permanently lubricated gearbox and plain steel construction. AND -- you cannot buy individual parts -- you must replace the motor and gearbox en complete. They are disposable, and in my opinion this is very expensive for disposable gear.

It is powerful enough, but the clutch is poorly designed and very awkward to operate (winch handle in the gypsy cap). If the chain kinks a little going in, it will wreck various bits. It cannot be operated manually.

These vertical windlasses are in general not a good solution for someone who anchors a lot. They have the advantage of a low profile which doesn't catch sheets as easily, and I guess they look sleek, but that's about all the good you can say about them.

A horizontal windlass with all the works above deck, and a proper band brake, is a particular dream of mine. A warping drum on top. Rust-free alu housing (or stainless). A gearbox you can change the oil in. Manual operation possible. I like the Lofrans, and the Lighthouse.

[a64pilot]

For those that have a Maxwell or have experience with them, how is a VWC 1500?


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[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I have a large Lewmar windlass (Ocean 3), and would not agree that it is all that good. The below deck motor housing is plain steel poorly painted, and rusts (naturally, since sea water will drip on it because of the design). My previous one simply rusted through and i had to replace it at great expense. I am trying to keep this one treated. These windlasses are not made for long life, with permanently lubricated gearbox and plain steel construction. AND -- you cannot buy individual parts -- you must replace the motor and gearbox en complete. They are disposable, and in my opinion this is very expensive for disposable gear.

It is powerful enough, but the clutch is poorly designed and very awkward to operate (winch handle in the gypsy cap). If the chain kinks a little going in, it will wreck various bits. It cannot be operated manually.

These vertical windlasses are in general not a good solution for someone who anchors a lot. They have the advantage of a low profile which doesn't catch sheets as easily, and I guess they look sleek, but that's about all the good you can say about them.

A horizontal windlass with all the works above deck, and a proper band brake, is a particular dream of mine. A warping drum on top. Rust-free alu housing (or stainless). A gearbox you can change the oil in. Manual operation possible. I like the Lofrans, and the Lighthouse.

We are just going to have to disagree on this. The most reliable windlasses I've had have been vertical. I only wanted Horizontal in the beginning. I quickly found stripping and holding problems with them. The typical Horizontal only engages maybe 2 chain links. A good Vertical engages many links as the chain wraps around the wildcat nearly 360 degrees. Trouble free, no overrides etc.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

We are just going to have to disagree on this. The most reliable windlasses I've had have been vertical. I only wanted Horizontal in the beginning. I quickly found stripping and holding problems with them. The typical Horizontal only engages maybe 2 chain links. A good Vertical engages many links as the chain wraps around the wildcat nearly 360 degrees. Trouble free, no overrides etc.

As always, YMMV.

It's true of course that vertical windlass grip the chain with more of the gypsy (about 180 degrees on my Lewmar). But I had a horizontal windlass on the previous boat, and despite using less of the gypsy, never had any problem with slipping, overrides, etc. Nor have I heard that people often have this problem with horizontal windlasses. But -- YMMV.

[CarlF]

I also had problems with rust on a Lewmar vertical windlass underdeck components (and the foot switches failed more often than Rule bilge pump switches). That was 15 years ago so they may have improved.

My last two boats have had Maxwell vertical and I'm sticking with the brand. My current Maxwell RC12 with a capstan is a brute. I have 200ft of chain and 200ft of 3/4" nylon so I need the RC12's rope/chain capability. The VWC only takes chain. Even if you are only chain, take a look at the RC. It's a newer design. It grips the chain flawlessly.

I also agree that you need a strong windlass - not to pull you up to the anchor, I use the engine for that except in the calmest conditions - but once you have the chain vertical you sometimes need to drive the boat forward to break out a deeply set anchor. This can put a lot of strain on the windlass.

I prefer vertical to horizontal because I dislike having an important electric motor above deck in an area swept by green water. It's asking a lot of the windlass cover.