New to anchoring - appreciate advice/opinions

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Sailmon

Thank you all for your replies - has been very helpful - much food for thought. We haven't made a selection yet, but are getting close. Departing Lake Erie in 4 to 5 weeks!

If you haven't already, you might have a look at SuperMAX anchors, too...

-Chris

[groundtackle]

Originally Posted by Sailmon

Thank you all for your replies - has been very helpful - much food for thought. We haven't made a selection yet, but are getting close. Departing Lake Erie in 4 to 5 weeks! Two more questions:
1. It appears that based on manufacturer tables Mantus recommends a 45# anchor for our size/weight boat and for Manson Supreme a 35 pound anchor is recommended. Any idea why? Is the Manson more effective per pound?
2. Is the Excel anchor available in the U.S? I haven't been able to find a distributor.
Thanks again,
Bob

Sailmon, Thanks for considering the Excel. Ground Tackle Marine is based in Victoria BC Canada. We are the North American distributor for Anchor Right Australia products including the Excel. On our site we have the products, sizing charts, UPS integration (3-7 days typical) and e-commerce ability.
If chosing an Excel for your vessel I would suggest #5 47lb/22kg. It lists for $745 cdn =$560 usd. We have good stock on hand. I would feel the 35lb to be on the light side.
Happy to discuss in more detail on here or give us a call.
ce
www.groundtackle.com

[Panope]

The "45" pound Mantus anchor that I tested weighed 40 pounds on my scale.

The "47" pound Excel anchor that I tested weighed 50 pounds on my scale.

Steve

[groundtackle]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

May be too much info on new generation anchors for the OP but if he will forgive us I'd like to take this opportunity to compare notes from the 'professionals' who have tuned in here.

1. I take it the Mantus is NOT certified (by a certifying agency) as SHHP? (It does seem to stow very flat though (when dismantled) and (being perhaps a bit 'lightweight') has a large fluke area for its weight.)
2. The most useful comparison site I've found on INDEPENDENT ANCHOR PERFORMANCE TESTS (google it) is Peter Smith's site (petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors.....), which doesn't include results for the Sarca Excel - do his tests predate the Excel? Where can I find TRULY INDEPENDENT test results/comparisons for this one?
3. If the Excel relies on a lead-weighted tip (instead of a roll-bar), how does one re-galvanize it after five years (of being dismantled and lying around in the bilges with salt water sloshing around)? Or is it only the alu version that dismantles? Now I'm confused, but you get my drift...

And a final comment for those who like to sleep nights - the greatest advantage I've seen from the new generation anchors is their ability to dig in again instantly after a 180 degree tide or wind shift: don't expect this from your old Bruce, CQR, Danforth - they were never designed to do this. (I'm not certain the Mantus is built strong enough for this either, though I don't doubt its ability to re-set, but as a once-in-a-decade storm anchor I'm prepared to take the risk.)

NevisDog, Anchor Right Australia has some test results along with certifications here-
SARCA Certification - anchorright.com.au
Using this very cool piece of equipment-
Tidal Anchor Test Skid T.A.T.S - anchorright.com.au
The Excel is relatively new and missed out the last batch of tests or wasn't invited. We would love the opportunity to participate.
The Excel is not lead weighted. The toe is steel plate fabricated then poured with molten steel. This makes for a strong solid mass then galvanized. Re-galvanizing is never an issue. The turned down toe and cutting edge is actually stainless steel. As the toe receives abuse, the galvanizing wears off and exposes the stainless. Instead of a rusty tip it stays bright and can be easily sharpened without compromising the integrity of the anchor .
The aluminum Excel is essentially a duplicate of the galvanized version and does come apart for stowage. An ingenious interlock shank/ fluke doesn't load the retaining bolts. The galvanized or stainless Excel versions do not come apart. The aluminum Excel has close to the same performance qualities as its galv brother for half the weight. Steve Goodwin did a brutal test and video that model, #59. You do give up something when going aluminum as the vid shows. With al. stowed below in case of a galv version loss it would fit right directly into your bow roller as they are vitually the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoUWhAhCdWQ

Hope some of those links work..not my area of expertise. Anchor Right has a vast amount of info on their site.
ce

[JPA Cate]

Relative to the Bruce Anchor, the only setting failure mode we found in our Bruce years was if it picked up a "handful" of one rock/small boulder, it would not then set.

It DID fail to re-set one time in a thunder storm when we were off the boat. We came back around the corner into the harbor, to see our boat .... what turned out to be thumping on the bottom. Now, it is a small harbor, and the boat dancing at its anchor is probably what yanked it out. It is good sand holding there, but the boat was off with the fairies! Only time it ever did that (thank goodness), but stuff happens. Fortunately no damage.

[NevisDog]

I don't feel quite so bad about my foolish comments when they elicit useful info from those who have the knowledge or experience, as the two posts above.

Thanks Groundtackle for passing along the correct stuff, as I had pretty much discounted the (readily available here) Excel, thinking it lead-filled - Wrong!!! Of course Panope's videos also make this clear, stainless tip and all, but I only discovered this incredible resource after pontificating here. How do you cope with people describing it as a 'Delta knock-off' though, as it seems nothing could be further from the truth?

Anne's honest comments about the Bruce anchor much appreciated. I've only used older generation CQR and Danforth and would never recommend those to anyone as a primary anchor (bloody useless, unless moored between two of 'em of course) but the Bruce does seem to fair better (so long as it's the real deal and not one of those disastrous lookalikes, but how do you tell?).

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Don C L

.. and if you set 'em Bahamian, you can swing, but in a tiny circle. ...

Ok, showing my total ignorance yet again, but I'd love to know, how do you swing for more than a day or so on two anchors, in a tidal estuary, without the chains becoming inextricably wound around each other?

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Anne's honest comments about the Bruce anchor much appreciated. I've only used older generation CQR and Danforth and would never recommend those to anyone as a primary anchor (bloody useless, unless moored between two of 'em of course) but the Bruce does seem to fair better (so long as it's the real deal and not one of those disastrous lookalikes, but how do you tell?).

Hi, ND: you tell because the genuine bruce says it on its stock. Just, the "Bruce", molded in, all in caps.

We also used a Bruce copy claw from China for a while, the fluke angles were slightly different, and it did not say "Bruce". We were among those who did not like the fiddliness of easing the plow into the bottom; but ours was a CQR copy, not a genuine CQR.

The "genuine CQR" has a failure mode, and I have written about that elsewhere on CF, but, in fact, some intelligent people we know quite well still have one as their primary anchor, and they sailed from Australia, to Alaska and back, with it still as their primary anchor. It did require a bushing insert at one point.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

so long as it's the real deal and not one of those disastrous lookalikes, but how do you tell?

This is a geniune Bruce. Note the lettering is raised:




The other clue is the fluke shape. The copies tend to not have the appropriate blade shape, twist and sharpness. The twist can be seen in this photo:



The Bruce anchor is one of the few designs that is sensitive to minor variations. It has no ballast or roll bar so relies on a carefully designed blade geometry to level itself. Some of the copies have a very inaccurate fluke shape.

[groundtackle]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

I don't feel quite so bad about my foolish comments when they elicit useful info from those who have the knowledge or experience, as the two posts above.

Thanks Groundtackle for passing along the correct stuff, as I had pretty much discounted the (readily available here) Excel, thinking it lead-filled - Wrong!!! Of course Panope's videos also make this clear, stainless tip and all, but I only discovered this incredible resource after pontificating here. How do you cope with people describing it as a 'Delta knock-off' though, as it seems nothing could be further from the truth?

Anne's honest comments about the Bruce anchor much appreciated. I've only used older generation CQR and Danforth and would never recommend those to anyone as a primary anchor (bloody useless, unless moored between two of 'em of course) but the Bruce does seem to fair better (so long as it's the real deal and not one of those disastrous lookalikes, but how do you tell?).

It's been an interesting year as your friendly neighborhood anchor salesman. Folks over here have certainly grasped this concept. Today we unloaded our 5th sea freight shipment from Anchor Right Aus. (thanks Rex and all those involved) Wish we were selling feather pillows.
PNW is a weedy and unknown bottom. We have large tides and our summer growth turbidity restricts any visual, never know what is down there. The Excel works well for us and yes, very different from a delta.
ce

[Blue Crab]

Good call deleting that last completely ridiculous post Thomm.

[Bean Counter]

Replace the plough with a spade, Rocna, Manson, Mantus etc, get it one size larger than recommended. Use an all chain rode. For the dinghy get as big an engine your dinghy will take, if weight is the issue get a two stroke version (when outside USA), you will appreciate more power, especially if you have to take a load any distance.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by groundtackle

The Excel works well for us and yes, very different from a delta.

Must be frustrating for you as an anchor Salesman to feel like you have to continually distinguish yourself from yesterday's news, I mean the Delta. That's a hard "consumer misinformation" to have to overcome just to make a dollar since your anchor looks so similar and the Delta is so well known, at least in the US.

I have some sales experience, I don't envy you. Tough market. So many to choose from. To top it off people usually don't trust sales people to begin with since they think you are only interested in one thing, making money for yourself.

I am sure your anchor is probably just as good as any other new generation anchor. I have said as much.

Since you keep putting yourself out there, calling attention to yourself, just exactly what is the sales pitch? Better in weeds? Or is a price point thing? What? Why exactly is your anchor better than all the rest? Why are other anchors less superior to yours?

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Delancey

...Why exactly is your anchor better than all the rest?

Comparing good and bad features of the latest generation anchors is fascinating but very time-consuming. Excel must be one of the most recent and has missed out on the last 'independent' testing round, so I'll watch with interest, but Panope's excellent testing methods sure highlight the importance of mud-shedding designs in re-setting after a big windshift. This mud-shedding is a feature of 'convex' designs like the Excel (though the Spade performs quite well in his tests too).

But each one has some outstanding feature to recommend it - depends what's important to you.

[groundtackle]

ND, thanks for asking. We try not to be excessively self promoting but now that the question has been asked...Here's the story on why we sell Excel anchors:
I bought my boat (my 3rd keel boat over 25 years of sailing ) in 2013. It's a Cal 2-46 and came with a 65 lb CQR. On my previous boat I had a genuine Bruce. I determined pretty fast that the CQR would not set well in a variety of conditions where I'd had better luck with the Bruce. I'd also, however, had the Bruce drag in 30 knots when I thought it was well set. I made a list of criteria for my new anchor which included:
Fast setting
Reliable resetting on current/wind reversal
Super high holding certified
Come back to the boat clean not carrying 20-60 lbs of mud
Breaks out at close to 1:1 without a big fight
Maintains significant hold at short scopes 2 or 2.5:1
Fit my bow roller with minimal or no modification
Built super strong and unlikely to suffer any damage even under extreme loads
No lead in the toe for environmental reasons.
So I read a lot and talked to people about their anchors. The only product I could find that consistently met all my requirements was the Excel. I tried to buy one and had to have Rex air freight it from Aus. at significant expense.
I'm a retired veterinarian. I don't really need a business or a job, but I like being busy and helping people. I showed the anchor to my buddy (now my partner) Chris who is a 30 year veteran of the marine trade and a metal fabricator and has a lot more miles under his sails than I do and he was also impressed by the build quality and my research. Chris had some opportunities to try the product himself and agreed it was a superior product that has not been successfully marketed in North America. The next thing that happens is we're in business together offering a great product to the boating community. You're right ND we have this stupid crazy "plow/ delta" comparison thing to overcome and that is a challenge but eventually we are confident the truth about the Excel will come to be widely know.
Thanks again for asking
Nick