New to anchoring - appreciate advice/opinions

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Delancey

20kg/45lbs which is pretty manageable for me in ten or fifteen feet of water. If I were regularly anchoring in deeper water I might feel differently about the not having a windlass thing.

I know exactly how you feel. After 35 years in San Francisco, we sailed our boat up to Vancouver Island last summer. No windlass, Rocna 10, 1/4" chain. I used to "play" be-the-windlass, not anymore.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by Sailmon

Dear All,
...
While we have been vacationing on our boat for the past 3 decades (makes us sound so old...) we have mostly stayed in marinas and have little experience with anchoring and related use of tender. I hope you can help me out with advice/opinions regarding the following questions.
1. Aside from lunch hook, we currently have 2 anchors on the boat - a Fortress and a plow type (can't remember which brand). While I realize different anchors are more suitable for different conditions and that there will be times when both anchors will be needed, would it be a poor choice to think of the Fortress as our primary anchor (southern U.S. east coast and Bahamas).
2. We have 2 rodes - one is 30' 3/8 BBB chain and 150' 5/8 three strand nylon. The other is 95' 5/16 BBB chain and 205' 5/8 3 strand nylon. Wondering which rode would be best suited for which anchor (plow and fortress)?
...
Bob

Lots of info above, some from world class sailors, and the odd advice from local yokels who don't know what they don't know. The many anchor threads can be read but there's no real need. This thread has covered the basics.

My experience in FL and the Bahamas suggests the Fortress will be fine much of your time. The area has been sailed by thousands using a standard Danforth with 5 or 6' of chain. And there will be times when you'll want two anchors.

Now that we have the next-gen anchors widely available, and they've been shown clearly to be superior, it would be silly to stick to any type of old style plow, and particularly the Delta and CQRs.

With your boat, I'd buy an upsized next-gen and use the 95'+205' as best bower, and worry no more. Which next gen? I have a Rocna as my No. 1. That said, when I read that an old hand cruising for 30+ years has used a Manson Supreme for the last 12 and is still happy with it, well ....

Add to that that Defender is closing them out at great prices and geez why not? The closeout pricing merely suggests clearing the shelves for the next new thing to me.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

If you're sailing in the Chesapeake, most any old anchor will do...except for off the Naval Academy in Annapolis. Let us know how the CQR holds in 30 knots there.

Another thing we a bit further south have to deal with is anchoring on the seaside if you are on the Eastern Shore

I've jump off the boat before and sank up to my knees in marsh mud while trying to find some clams for lunch back in the day.

Another time we lost our engine and were being taken out with the tide toward the Atlantic Ocean thru one of the narrow inlets and the anchor which I had tossed overboard just bounced along for at least a minute or two before it caught. It was near dark and a storm on the way when this occurred

The current gets quite strong over there

The engine problem ended up being a split fuel line near the tank. The line was way old as was everything else on the boats we bought as teenagers and 20 year olds. We cut off the bad section, reattached the line, and then we came in

You do gain a bit of experience with anchoring though........with the different boats,
anchors, depths, and type of bottoms

[Spade Anchor]

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
One off the anchor manufacturers that I assume has a difficult design to regalvanize has come on here and I believe stated that needed to be regalvanized is a warrantable action, they would replace it under warranty.
Not sure which one though, but I was real surprised by that as I see zinc wearing off as normal wear and tear myself, I would have never asked for warranty.

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

I'm pretty sure (90%+) that it was Spade that stated this. It's easy enough to ask (assuming they don't chime in).

There is no need to re galvanize a Spade Anchor. Any excessive rust or pitting is covered by the Lifetime Warranty. What is excessive? I do not know! Spade Anchor lets the customer decide that. We do not have to look at your anchor everyday, you do. This should be considered when calculating overall Anchor Value.

The tip of our Spade Anchor is a beast. As the Spade Anchor is the only lead filled Galvanized anchor in the world, this gives us an advantage in tip strength. The lead creates a natural ballast (eliminates need for roll bar) and reinforces the entire fluke tip strength.

"Knock on wood" we have not seen a bent tip, on a Spade Anchor. We even had a shipping incident that a FedEx truck drove over the tip of an S-180 and it did not do anything to the tip. Granted that is not a controlled test, but it is really cool!

[kas_1611]

I'll just add a vote for "good technique"

Regardless of what type of anchor you have, what size/weight, what type of chain or rode you have or a billion other engineering factors it all equals sod all if you just lob it over the side and do nothing to it.

I've seen so many charter boats do this in anchorages it is unreal. They come steaming in, chuck the anchor over the side, let out a pitiful amount of chain while still going forward quite often then cut the engine. No setting force, no checking nothing. You could have the best anchor in the world, oversized for your boat, with superior chain but do this and it is worthless. Not surprisingly I have also seen same charter boats slowly drag backwards in the slightest breezes.

Know your water depth to the bow roller (in my case that is depth meter plus 3.5m as we are calibrated to the keel). Work out your scope in advance (I generally go 4:1 on all chain but will haul back to 3:1 once set if a tight anchorage). Plan your approach and drop point. Slowly motor into the wind, come to a stop at the drop zone and let the anchor go. But don't go mad and let everything out at once. I let out just enough to tag bottom then as we drift back I let out more chain, controlled manner, so there is a little tension on the chain until I am at 2:1 then I let the anchor dig itself in. As the chain tension increases I let out to 3:1 then 4:1. The admiral meanwhile is controlling the drift and when I ask she slowly increases the reverse revs to around 1500 to 1800rpm. We spot our marks, set the chart plotter to track and ensure we are happy with the set of the anchor. If it holds 1500rpm reverse for 30secs then we aren't going anywhere in a hurry. Water temperature and depth permitting I then swim over and visually check the set.

Have a practiced technique like this and with any anchor you should get a good solid set. Different anchors do require a little fine tuning as do different bottoms (soft mud needs a good soak for instance before applying the reverse).

For the record I upgraded from a 16kg Delta with 50m of 8mm uncalibrated chain to a 33kg Vulcan with 60m 8mm G70 chain and 45m of 16mm Octoplait after dragging in 45kts. This on a 40ft Bavaria. Overkill maybe but I sleep like a baby

Hope that helps

Keiron

[Fortress]

Originally Posted by Spade Anchor

The tip of our Spade Anchor is a beast. As the Spade Anchor is the only lead filled Galvanized anchor in the world, this gives us an advantage in tip strength. The lead creates a natural ballast (eliminates need for roll bar) and reinforces the entire fluke tip strength.

The entire Spade anchor is a beast and it is an engineering marvel. I believe that all anchor manufacturers are willing to acknowledge that the late Alain Poiraud, the inventor, was a pioneer in anchor design.

[kas_1611]

Originally Posted by Fortress

The entire Spade anchor is a beast and it is an engineering marvel. I believe that all anchor manufacturers are willing to acknowledge that the late Alain Poiraud, the inventor, was a pioneer in anchor design.

High praise indeed from a competitor

I'll admit the Spade was on my short list but I couldn't find a supplier close enough to me at the time (subsequently have), wasn't sure it would work on my bow roller and for the size I was looking at it was a bit of a squeeze to fit. My neighbour has one and he is mighty impressed with it but he also likes my Vulcan.

Alain definitely moved anchor design forward several notches and I think we all owe him a great deal of thanks.

Keiron

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by kas_1611

I'll just add a vote for "good technique"

Regardless of what type of anchor you have, what size/weight, what type of chain or rode you have or a billion other engineering factors it all equals sod all if you just lob it over the side and do nothing to it.

I've seen so many charter boats do this in anchorages it is unreal. They come steaming in, chuck the anchor over the side, let out a pitiful amount of chain while still going forward quite often then cut the engine. No setting force, no checking nothing. You could have the best anchor in the world, oversized for your boat, with superior chain but do this and it is worthless. Not surprisingly I have also seen same charter boats slowly drag backwards in the slightest breezes.

Know your water depth to the bow roller (in my case that is depth meter plus 3.5m as we are calibrated to the keel). Work out your scope in advance (I generally go 4:1 on all chain but will haul back to 3:1 once set if a tight anchorage). Plan your approach and drop point. Slowly motor into the wind, come to a stop at the drop zone and let the anchor go. But don't go mad and let everything out at once. I let out just enough to tag bottom then as we drift back I let out more chain, controlled manner, so there is a little tension on the chain until I am at 2:1 then I let the anchor dig itself in. As the chain tension increases I let out to 3:1 then 4:1. The admiral meanwhile is controlling the drift and when I ask she slowly increases the reverse revs to around 1500 to 1800rpm. We spot our marks, set the chart plotter to track and ensure we are happy with the set of the anchor. If it holds 1500rpm reverse for 30secs then we aren't going anywhere in a hurry. Water temperature and depth permitting I then swim over and visually check the set.

Have a practiced technique like this and with any anchor you should get a good solid set. Different anchors do require a little fine tuning as do different bottoms (soft mud needs a good soak for instance before applying the reverse).

For the record I upgraded from a 16kg Delta with 50m of 8mm uncalibrated chain to a 33kg Vulcan with 60m 8mm G70 chain and 45m of 16mm Octoplait after dragging in 45kts. This on a 40ft Bavaria. Overkill maybe but I sleep like a baby

Hope that helps

Keiron

Keiron,

Look out your front window, if you see an Oyster sailboat.... I'm anchored off your front yard at the far end of the bay.

Ken

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Fortress

The entire Spade anchor is a beast and it is an engineering marvel. I believe that all anchor manufacturers are willing to acknowledge that the late Alain Poiraud, the inventor, was a pioneer in anchor design.

Mantus Tip

Looking closely at the tip of the Mantus one can see where the tear of the toe occurs along the weld line. This could not happen with many other designs. Definitely not with the Spade in Post 64 above.

I have seen bent tips before but not torn. This is definitely a design issue. Mantus being a good reactive company will consider upgrading their design I suspect.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by downunder

Looking closely at the tip of the Mantus one can see where the tear of the toe occurs along the weld line. This could not happen with many other designs

There are pros and cons with each of the new generation anchors. I'm very happy with our SHHP bower anchor (had to downsize the 25kg for a 15kg because the big one was too big for everyday use - incredibly hard to break out compared to older generation CQR for example) and our alloy Fortress is great for laying out with the dinghy but I'm still looking for a 25kg Mantus that can be unbolted and stowed in the bilges as a storm anchor. I realise its scantlings may be a bit light for its size (compared to other similar shaped anchors) but I'm less worried about tip or stock bending, more interested in its awesome holding power for its weight.

[groundtackle]

Originally Posted by downunder

Mantus Tip

Looking closely at the tip of the Mantus one can see where the tear of the toe occurs along the weld line. This could not happen with many other designs. Definitely not with the Spade in Post 64 above.

I have seen bent tips before but not torn. This is definitely a design issue. Mantus being a good reactive company will consider upgrading their design I suspect.

Yikes. As a metal fabricator and welder this design has obvious error, minimally there should be a dart. At least Rocna or Manson brings their bottom plate back half way under the shank loaded area.
Greg, pm me and perhaps we could help.
We all need this equipment to survive some personal stupidity and a whole bunch more.
Attempting to be non confrontational, how am I doing?
ce

[downunder]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

There are pros and cons with each of the new generation anchors. I'm very happy with our SHHP bower anchor (had to downsize the 25kg for a 15kg because the big one was too big for everyday use - incredibly hard to break out compared to older generation CQR for example) and our alloy Fortress is great for laying out with the dinghy but I'm still looking for a 25kg Mantus that can be unbolted and stowed in the bilges as a storm anchor. I realise its scantlings may be a bit light for its size (compared to other similar shaped anchors) but I'm less worried about tip or stock bending, more interested in its awesome holding power for its weight.

Yes the ability of an anchor to be dismantled and stowed is an great advantage for a back up anchor.

In particular an advantage of the Fortress, Mantus and aluminium SARCA Excel anchors.

[groundtackle]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

There are pros and cons with each of the new generation anchors. I'm very happy with our SHHP bower anchor (had to downsize the 25kg for a 15kg because the big one was too big for everyday use - incredibly hard to break out compared to older generation CQR for example) and our alloy Fortress is great for laying out with the dinghy but I'm still looking for a 25kg Mantus that can be unbolted and stowed in the bilges as a storm anchor. I realise its scantlings may be a bit light for its size (compared to other similar shaped anchors) but I'm less worried about tip or stock bending, more interested in its awesome holding power for its weight.

I have really not paying attention and to tired to look.. are you suggesting that Mantus is a certified SHHP anchor?
I could not agree more regarding a take apart anchor that stows below as a spare. I will however disagree with tip or stock bending. UPS doesn't deliver to most of this PNW coast, so bring your best stuff with you.

How about an anchor that..... goes underground, sets fast, resets because it doesn't plug, dives into weed, finds its way into rock, toe weighted that properly orientates and holds in the soft stuff, comes up clean on deck, fits your bow roller, self launches, solidly engineered,certified and constructed.
Excel checks all the boxes.
ce

[NevisDog]

May be too much info on new generation anchors for the OP but if he will forgive us I'd like to take this opportunity to compare notes from the 'professionals' who have tuned in here.

1. I take it the Mantus is NOT certified (by a certifying agency) as SHHP? (It does seem to stow very flat though (when dismantled) and (being perhaps a bit 'lightweight') has a large fluke area for its weight.)
2. The most useful comparison site I've found on INDEPENDENT ANCHOR PERFORMANCE TESTS (google it) is Peter Smith's site (petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors.....), which doesn't include results for the Sarca Excel - do his tests predate the Excel? Where can I find TRULY INDEPENDENT test results/comparisons for this one?
3. If the Excel relies on a lead-weighted tip (instead of a roll-bar), how does one re-galvanize it after five years (of being dismantled and lying around in the bilges with salt water sloshing around)? Or is it only the alu version that dismantles? Now I'm confused, but you get my drift...

And a final comment for those who like to sleep nights - the greatest advantage I've seen from the new generation anchors is their ability to dig in again instantly after a 180 degree tide or wind shift: don't expect this from your old Bruce, CQR, Danforth - they were never designed to do this. (I'm not certain the Mantus is built strong enough for this either, though I don't doubt its ability to re-set, but as a once-in-a-decade storm anchor I'm prepared to take the risk.)

[Fortress]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

2. The most useful comparison site I've found on INDEPENDENT ANCHOR PERFORMANCE TESTS (google it) is Peter Smith's site (petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors.....),

Peter Smith's web site has a bit of a Rocna slant to it with some inaccurate and missing test information.

I would be glad to give you specifics by PM if you have an interest.