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Old 24-02-2011, 14:10   #16
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Re: Need advice...please look

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Hmmmm.... the bow shroud attatchments raised above deck level so you'd probably have to make a teak or similar V piece to sit snug up and through bolt the roller onto that... which would mean an offset roller or a new fit for purpose roller with a higher cheek on one side drilled to take your bottlescrew...
Maybe look in your chandlers for something like this.... or whatever you reckpn will fit and is upto the job

I will do a piece to level the roller...this two roller model must be stronger then single roller??
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Old 24-02-2011, 14:14   #17
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Re: Need advice...please look

Besides adding a roller as others mentioned, I'd pick a different anchor as my primary. Hate to turn this into another 'my anchor is best' thread, but the Fortress are better "lunch hooks" than primary anchors because they don't reset well when the wind swings around 180 degrees, and being aluminum they don't hold up well in rough bottoms. They're best just used in sand and mud for a few hours at a time, not my idea of a primary anchor if you're going to live on and cruise the boat.

edit. I see Mark Johnson posted the same thing while I was typing....
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Old 24-02-2011, 14:21   #18
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Re: Need advice...please look

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I agree with the "you need a roller" guys. You may not have a good back, but when you pull that anchor up with 40 pounds of dense mud stuck to it, you'll be wishing you had a roller.

You should be aware that ANY "lightweight" or Fortress/Danforth type, and their clones, are not safe to use "by themselves", as a primary. It is fine to use them if it has another anchor in the opposite direction as well, like a Bahamian moor, but not as your ONLY anchor.

Used alone, if the current or wind reverses and the anchor flips over, it can be fouled by dense mud, a small chunk of coral, a beer can, or conch shell. Debris like this is EVERYWHERE, and fouls the hinge. They will reverse and reset 9 times out of ten, but that isn't very safe.

A really good, inexpensive, primary anchor for your boat, would be a Delta 22. They work themselves around in a circle as the winds reverse, rather than pull out and have to reset.

If you had it mounted to your roller, you would find it so much more convenient to deploy and retrieve.

BUT... If the weight on your bow is of concern, you could use two Fortresses, and one would hang from the stern rail, or elsewhere. This is sort of what I did on my first boat, a Wharram 23... used two Danforths opposing each other.

Good luck with your project, M.

Thanks for all the suport guys...I appreciate this very much...I was actualy looking at a rockna 33lb as primary anchor...but the stats says the fortress holds stronger...in rough condition I was to use 2 anchors anyway so I figured it would do the job...I did read alot of posts on anchor but I got confused in the process.
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Old 24-02-2011, 14:30   #19
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Re: Need advice...please look

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I dont quit understand how anchoring works? I guess the rode is suported by the roller right? if so this little thing will bend in all directions in bad weather???
If you bend this little roller with your boat pulling on it, you've just survived a hurricane with all chain wedged into a rock face while being pummeled by breaking waves Not too worry, it's plenty strong.
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Old 24-02-2011, 14:37   #20
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Re: Need advice...please look

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If you bend this little roller with your boat pulling on it, you've just survived a hurricane with all chain wedged into a rock face while being pummeled by breaking waves Not too worry, it's plenty strong.
thanks for reashuring me...honest I have no idea whats awaiting me, but its commin real fast and this buy has got the hitches alredy...me and my girl will learn sailing in Tadousac (beluga whatching) then ils de la madelaine...and if we feel ready, witch I hope we do...its off to Azures and by by winter!!!
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Old 24-02-2011, 15:15   #21
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Re: Need advice...please look

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Thanks for all the suport guys...I appreciate this very much...I was actualy looking at a rockna 33lb as primary anchor...but the stats says the fortress holds stronger...in rough condition I was to use 2 anchors anyway so I figured it would do the job...I did read alot of posts on anchor but I got confused in the process.

I would go with the Rocna as your primary anchor as it is a better all purpose anchor and initallt use the danforth on your bow as secondary.

The fortress is a great 2nd / storm anchor (many cruisers carray them as such) and would be a good upgrade of the danforth.

Look up in search some previous anchoring threads for plenty of torrid discussion. most eventually get closed by moderators for some reason.
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Old 24-02-2011, 16:33   #22
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Re: Need advice...please look

I too am looking for a primary anchor and know the history of discussions about anchors on the forum. I too am looking at the Rocna and am also amused that these discussions get sooo heated. Rocna seems to be pretty new fangled technology that has been noted many times as a good all round primary anchor.
Maybe the moderators have an opinion that could help.
My boat has dual bow roller and lots of chain/rode storage and weighs 6 tons.
Still, I have to finger out what this snubber thingy is all about. My boat is in a slip in the spring.
No shoveling here as I have to walk to work tomorrow and wait for the snow plow to dig me out.
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Old 24-02-2011, 19:34   #23
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Re: Need advice...please look

Well I just have to jump in here and reveal what an old fart I am. The anchor arrangement on the bow you showed us is exactly what most cruising boats up to and beyond 40 feet had in the USA until the 1970s or 80s when anchor rollers and plow anchors, and then Bruce anchors, came into fashion. Believe it or not all you young whippersnappers, but many people cruised successfully and safely up and down the East Coast using nothing but a Danforth anchor as the main using about 6 feet of chain, as they recommended, and an all nylon road. The anchor was usually chocked on the foredeck as in the picture, or on the cabin top further aft, and the anchor was light enough to easily pick up and lower over the side. The anchor was retrieved by motoring up on the anchor and pulling in the line hand over hand until you were over the anchor when you would cleat off the line and use the boat's momentum to break out the anchor. I sailed to Labrador and back with this system on a 30 footer using a Danforth HT 35 as our primary anchor and I don't believe we dragged once. There is simply no need for long lengths of chain from about Maine down to the Bahamas on the East Coast, as bottom chafe is not an issue in the all-mud or sand bottoms we have making the lack of an anchor roller a non-issue. You really only need a roller when you go to lots of chain, heavy anchors, and a windlass. I personally would think a Fortress FX-23 would make a fine primary anchor on the H28, but I would use a second Fortress in a Bahamian moor if I was expecting a wind or current change.
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Old 24-02-2011, 20:46   #24
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Re: Need advice...please look

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My boat has dual bow roller and lots of chain/rode storage and weighs 6 tons. Still, I have to finger out what this snubber thingy is all about. My boat is in a slip in the spring.
Tom Neale writes an advice column for Boat US and he might be able to give you some good tips on a snubber. Tom also has a dual roller set up, as you will see on page 8 of the below story he wrote "How to Survive a Storm at Anchor."

Here is Tom's e-mail address: tomneale@boatus.com

You are certainly welcome to mention that I referred you.

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors
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File Type: pdf How_to_Survive_a_Storm_at_Anchor.pdf (371.6 KB, 28 views)
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Old 24-02-2011, 20:53   #25
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Re: Need advice...please look

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Well I just have to jump in here and reveal what an old fart I am. The anchor arrangement on the bow you showed us is exactly what most cruising boats up to and beyond 40 feet had in the USA until the 1970s or 80s when anchor rollers and plow anchors, and then Bruce anchors, came into fashion. Believe it or not all you young whippersnappers, but many people cruised successfully and safely up and down the East Coast using nothing but a Danforth anchor as the main using about 6 feet of chain, as they recommended, and an all nylon road. The anchor was usually chocked on the foredeck as in the picture, or on the cabin top further aft, and the anchor was light enough to easily pick up and lower over the side. The anchor was retrieved by motoring up on the anchor and pulling in the line hand over hand until you were over the anchor when you would cleat off the line and use the boat's momentum to break out the anchor. I sailed to Labrador and back with this system on a 30 footer using a Danforth HT 35 as our primary anchor and I don't believe we dragged once. There is simply no need for long lengths of chain from about Maine down to the Bahamas on the East Coast, as bottom chafe is not an issue in the all-mud or sand bottoms we have making the lack of an anchor roller a non-issue. You really only need a roller when you go to lots of chain, heavy anchors, and a windlass. I personally would think a Fortress FX-23 would make a fine primary anchor on the H28, but I would use a second Fortress in a Bahamian moor if I was expecting a wind or current change.
well I dont know what is my present anchor (one on photo) so I am ready to order the FX-23 I like that anchor for it looks and wieght, plus every owner says nothing but good about it...also sins eventualy I will spend much of the next decade from the Moluccas to the Salomons I will also get the recna and a roller just for good mesure!

Thanks for your story, reading english is not easy for me, but guys like you have a way with words that simply brings me there...for this I thank you.
id love to here about Labrador if you ever feel like sharing
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Old 24-02-2011, 20:58   #26
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Re: Need advice...please look

[QUOTE=Fortress;628007]Tom Neale writes an advice column for Boat US and he might be able to give you some good tips on a snubber. Tom also has a dual roller set up, as you will see on page 8 of the below story he wrote "How to Survive a Storm at Anchor."

Here is Tom's e-mail address: tomneale@boatus.com

You are certainly welcome to mention that I referred you.

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors[/QUOT

Thanks was looking for a midnight read
cheers
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Old 24-02-2011, 21:22   #27
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Re: Need advice...please look

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Well I just have to jump in here and reveal what an old fart I am. The anchor arrangement on the bow you showed us is exactly what most cruising boats up to and beyond 40 feet had in the USA until the 1970s or 80s when anchor rollers and plow anchors, and then Bruce anchors, came into fashion. Believe it or not all you young whippersnappers, but many people cruised successfully and safely up and down the East Coast using nothing but a Danforth anchor as the main using about 6 feet of chain, as they recommended, and an all nylon road. The anchor was usually chocked on the foredeck as in the picture, or on the cabin top further aft, and the anchor was light enough to easily pick up and lower over the side. The anchor was retrieved by motoring up on the anchor and pulling in the line hand over hand until you were over the anchor when you would cleat off the line and use the boat's momentum to break out the anchor. I sailed to Labrador and back with this system on a 30 footer using a Danforth HT 35 as our primary anchor and I don't believe we dragged once. There is simply no need for long lengths of chain from about Maine down to the Bahamas on the East Coast, as bottom chafe is not an issue in the all-mud or sand bottoms we have making the lack of an anchor roller a non-issue. You really only need a roller when you go to lots of chain, heavy anchors, and a windlass. I personally would think a Fortress FX-23 would make a fine primary anchor on the H28, but I would use a second Fortress in a Bahamian moor if I was expecting a wind or current change.
Okay, another old fart here. And I endorse all of the above and urge new sailors not to get sucked in by the industry's constant refrain that "you can't possibly go to sea" without this, that and the other.

It's still the same ocean as just a few decades ago and what worked then will work now - with adequate seamanship. For example, as shown by the post quoted above, you can do without a whiz bang anchor if you practice good seamanship. Reject the "set and forget", remote control modern mindset that sees many now longer willing to perform simple seaman-like tasks like being aware of weather and tides and responding appropriately when needed.

It's not just anchoring - there are so many "must-have" marine products which are more or less designed to take the place of seamanship skills.

I'd urge new sailors to go with what they've got and estabish through time and experience what they really need.

I commend Jobi on his initial instinct that a bow roller isn't necessary because the boat is decades old and hasn't needed one till now. That's a sensible, rational thoughtline, and I urge him to stay with it.

Just go without it Jobi and see how you fare. With that approach, you'll save plenty by not piling up on gear that you truly don't need, and you'll be a much better seaman for it.
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Old 24-02-2011, 21:44   #28
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Re: Need advice...please look

It's not just anchoring - there are so many "must-have" marine products which are more or less designed to take the place of seamanship skills.

I'd urge new sailors to go with what they've got and estabish through time and experience what they really need.

I commend Jobi on his initial instinct that a bow roller isn't necessary because the boat is decades old and hasn't needed one till now. That's a sensible, rational thoughtline, and I urge him to stay with it.

Just go without it Jobi and see how you fare. With that approach, you'll save plenty by not piling up on gear that you truly don't need, and you'll be a much better seaman for it. [/QUOTE]


Words of wisdome!!!
Nowadays marketing has taken so much space in everyones life, That we ignore common sens...truth be said many new products are exelent indeed, but are they really needed?
my first opinion was to get a second anchor (fortress) and go on from there...its easy to add once I have a better understanding of my needs.
again thanks
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Old 24-02-2011, 22:39   #29
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Re: Need advice...please look

G'Day Jobi,

At the risk of incensing my fellow old farts and admitting my own weaknesses, I must advise that a roller will improve your life at anchor and whilst raising and lowering it.

A few boats ago I had a Yankee 30... lovely S&S designed boat that was a joy to sail. I will admit that I had only a Danforth anchor, about 10 meters of chain, shockingly small nylon rode and no roller. Worked ok much of the time, but when the anchor would get really dug in, breaking it out was difficult by hand. When resorting to cleating off the rode and using the engine to break the anchor free I stuffed up the toe rail and sometimes the topsides around the bow. There is just no way to lead it fairly across the sheer line of the bow, and I really didn't like gouging up my nice boat. Also chafed the rode and that can get expensive too.

So, I fabricated a simple roller setup from (IIRC) 1/8" stainless plate. Used a trailer roller on a 1/2 inch bolt. Nothing cost very much, and it was dirt simple to build... and it made a huge difference in my life. One memorable night in Half Moon Bay I got the anchor fouled on an old bit of chain. Had to lead the rode back to a cockpit winch to get the mess up to where I could free the hook. Could not have done it without the roller. Don't think that Eric Hiscock or Bernard M coulda either! Another thing to consider is how your girlfriend will handle it if you are incapacitated sometime. Your back may be mighty strong... is hers?

While I agree that many of the things foisted off on cruisers these days are unnecessary, an anchor roller isn't one of them. The argument that people got along without them "in the old days" is pretty weak. They also got along with hemp ropes and cotton sails... wonder how many of our old fart sailors still use those things instead of dacron... you know, that new stuff that the marine industry says we should have if we are going cruising!

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Careel Bay, NSW, Oz
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Old 24-02-2011, 23:12   #30
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Re: Need advice...please look

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While I agree that many of the things foisted off on cruisers these days are unnecessary, an anchor roller isn't one of them. The argument that people got along without them "in the old days" is pretty weak. They also got along with hemp ropes and cotton sails... wonder how many of our old fart sailors still use those things instead of dacron... you know, that new stuff that the marine industry says we should have if we are going cruising!

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Careel Bay, NSW, Oz
I would include a second general purpose anchor as prudent seamanship as would I a simple roller.

Cheers
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