Name and strength of this join

[BigNut]

Not sure this is a knot, although I suppose it is a double lark’s head / cow hitch.
What is the breaking strength?
Thanks for any input.

[tenchiki]

It is 2 interlinked eye splices (there are 2 ways to do it, this one can be undone). I don't know of a special name for it, however I would expect >80% strength since eye splices are generally >90% strength of the line.
Maybe do a google picture search?

[boatman61]

I would guess the strength of the line minus one third..
But I could be wrong..
You'd have done better splicing the two llines together.

[BigNut]

Originally Posted by tenchiki

Maybe do a google picture search?

Thanks. I figure it should be pretty strong too, but was hoping for a more definitive answer.
I never thought of that. Didn’t find anything, but worth a shot, for sure.
Hopefully someone will pop in with an answer.

[Dsanduril]

That is a strop bend. Dressed differently it gets you a girth/cow hitch. ABK has it as 1495 eye-to-eye but notes that is becomes a strap bend.

I've seen reports of 55-80% tested strength but can't find a citation at the moment, maybe one of our knot experts has data.

[BigNut]

Thanks Dsanduril. I find that lower number intuitively surprising, but that’s why we test things, after all.
The thing is that the radius of the bend is much less than in a “true” cow hitch, no? I thought that would mean less loss of strength. Intuitively. Ha!

[BigNut]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

That is a strop bend. Dressed differently it gets you a girth/cow hitch.

I've seen reports of 55-80% tested strength but can't find a citation at the moment, maybe one of our knot experts has data.

Thanks also for naming it: Strop Bend

I found a link that fully supports your numbers.

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.co...-together.html

[StuM]

It's ABOK#1495 "Eye to Eye".
"This forms a SLING HITCH in one of the eyes which, with a little assistance will capsize into a STRAP BEND"

In Black Diamond tests, the "stropbend" came out at 80-85% in nylon, but much less in Dynex

Note that it is important that the two eyes are correctly dressed into a strop/strap bend and not allowed to collapse into a girth hitch around an eye!

(A cow hitch is tied in the end of a rope, a girth hitch tied in a bight)

[Dsanduril]

Interesting, that may be where I saw it once upon a time, looks familiar. Looking at their data table, note that they get >80% when like strap is joined to like strap (nylon to nylon, dynex to dynex) in larger sizes, and lower numbers when unlike straps are joined or with smaller straps.

The way Ashley describes tying it is the sling/cow/girth hitch way i.e. passing the tail of the line through it's own eye. The way Ashley has it pictured is as you have it dressed, so capsized to what he calls a strap bend.

[BigNut]

Originally Posted by StuM

It's ABOK#1495 "Eye to Eye".
"This forms a SLING HITCH in one of the eyes which, with a little assistance will capsize into a STRAP BEND"

Thanks Stu. How is this even topologically possible? If Ashley means the strop bend as in 1492. One of the eye-splices has become free of the other lines standing end? If pulled together, I would expect the outcome as in the "rubber band bend" (1493)

There are so many gotchas in knots. Fascinating. The more I learn, the less I know!

[BigNut]

Wouldn't you say this is closer to a strap KNOT, as in 1491/1493?

I suppose that will be determined by the size of the eyes?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by BigNut

Wouldn't you say this is closer to a strap KNOT, as in 1491/1493?

I suppose that will be determined by the size of the eyes?

Ashley used bend and knot interchangeably in the chapter on Bends.

A bend is a type of knot. A strap bend is a strap knot.


(You'll see the same with knots/hitches etc in other chapters)

[Dsanduril]

The way Ashley describes tying 1495, take the eye of rope A and poke it through the eye of rope B. Then take the tail of rope A and pass it through its own eye. If you then pull tight you will end up with the sling/cow/girth hitch (basically rope A is hitched around rope B). If you then roll the hitch you'll end up with something like 1491 or 1493, which is really just a square/reef knot with the tails joined back to the standing part of the line.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by BigNut

Thanks Stu. How is this even topologically possible? If Ashley means the strop bend as in 1492. One of the eye-splices has become free of the other lines standing end? If pulled together, I would expect the outcome as in the "rubber band bend" (1493)
There are so many gotchas in knots. Fascinating. The more I learn, the less I know!

I pretty sure he meant the bend in 1491 ("a bend that cannot be untied")

1492 ("a strap bend of another sort") is a different knot.

1493 is conceptually the same as 1495. Nether are shown dresses or under load. Both can collapse into either a strap bend or a girth hitch on an eye. Note the reference in #1945 to "sling hitch"



Ashley uses "sling hitch", bale sling hitch", "ring hitch" interchangeably. See #59, #1694, #1759 , #1859 etc, etc

[BigNut]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

The way Ashley describes tying 1495, take the eye of rope A and poke it through the eye of rope B. Then take the tail of rope A and pass it through its own eye. If you then pull tight you will end up with the sling/cow/girth hitch (basically rope A is hitched around rope B). If you then roll the hitch you'll end up with something like 1491 or 1493, which is really just a square/reef knot with the tails joined back to the standing part of the line.

Yes, thanks! I think I see it now. It is indeed a reef knot with no free ends.

I notice on the BlackDiamond page linked above that they suggest it would be better to join to eyes (loops) with a carabiner. In this application, with ⅞" 3 strand nylon, could a soft shackle perform a similar role, with a potentially stronger join?

[Just for completeness: I have been cutting and splicing new storm dock lines in ⅞" 3 strand nylon for use in anger above and beyond my usual dock lines. I started wondering how one might use two 75 foot lines to make a 150 line it that was needed for another application down the road. No specific need at the moment, just musing.]