Mooring Etiquette : Questions

[kmacdonald]

Dockhead, I have thousands of nights at anchor. Your lack of understanding has become apparent. Please read the explanations given by other posters if you don't like mine. Calling me inexperienced doesn't help your argument in the least.
What in the world do you think happens if someone drags and others have to pull anchor in a hurry when others are over your anchor? Sometimes one has to anchor in sub-optimal locations to avoid potential problems.

In crowded anchorages it is rare not to have a few boats drag anchor during squalls and to ignore that possibility is not something I do. What you and your experience do is up to you.

Assuming all the boats around you are using the same scope as your example does is wishful thinking at best. Hope it works out for you.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

Actually, aside from the way different vessels are affected, there can be differences due to wind, and definitely current, not to mention other forces, but I have not experienced any that be sufficient cause swings in directly opposite directions, even over short periods, when adjacent vessels in the usual private cruising size range are involved.

Exactly.

That's exactly why even very different vessels are just fine with swinging circles overlapping to some extent.

The more crowded the anchorage, the closer together you need to anchor, the more important matching vessel type and scope becomes important.

Identical vessels with identical scope can anchor even just a few feet from each other, with no problem. And haven't we all seen it!


Here's a good technique for picking a spot which reduces the overlap:



"In a crowded anchorage, your swing circles will all intersect and you need to rely on everyone reacting to the wind in a similar way and swinging together. Stay further away from boats on moorings since they don’t swing through a large circle like you will.

"If you’re on rope rode (rode is the anchor chain and/or rope) and the others around you are on chain, then you’ll need to give them a bit more room as you’ll tend to move about more in light winds and they’ll just rotate around where the chain touches the bottom instead of around their anchor.

"If you are in tight quarters, choose the largest gap you can and then drop your anchor even with the stern of the boat upwind of the gap. This will take some practice in picturing where you’ll come to rest."

The 6 Most Common Anchoring Mistakes: Keep Your Boat Off the Beach - Sail Mentor



"Ideally you should anchor outside the swinging area of other boats, but this is rarely practical in a popular anchorage. How do you stay clear of nearby boats? Placing your anchor astern of another boat is relatively safe as long as your scope does not significantly exceed theirs. Even if you drop your anchor abeam or slightly forward of a nearby boat, you should swing clear as long as your bow ends up behind their stern. If you anchor forward of a boat, be sure your anchor is also forward of theirs and is some distance to the right or left of it."

http://www.sailmagazine.com/cruising...ee-dimensions/

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by StuM

And studiously avoided every time.

Wrong. Please read previous posts.

In crowded anchorages it is sometimes best to raft up with other boats for the night. I do this often and enjoy the company of other sailors. Rafting up does have it's own set of dangers though and not all locations and conditions are suitable for it.

[barboak]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Wrong. Please read previous posts.



In crowded anchorages it is sometimes best to raft up with other boats for the night. I do this often and enjoy the company of other sailors. Rafting up does have it's own set of dangers though and not all locations and conditions are suitable for it.

I can't remember the last time I saw boats rafted together in the Caribbean except possibly a few charter boats.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Dockhead, I have thousands of nights at anchor.

Sorry, I'm just not buying that.

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Please read the explanations given by other posters if you don't like mine.

No one else has said that you can't anchor with overlapping swinging circles.


I'm guessing you've never even seen a crowded anchorage, to post this kind of nonsense.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

The La Paz Waltz is a well documented situation. It is exacerbated by La Paz often being nearly the first real anchorage experience for new cruisers from California.... Jim

Gosh, I was first there in the 60's, and until today not heard the waltz term. I disagree about California cruisers and La Paz or anywhere south on the Pacific Coast. Most of the anchor hassles I've seen occurred the the crowded anchorages around California's Channel Islands, or in the BVI between New York and New Jersey charter sailors (I only judge them by by accent). Mostly they are entertaining discussions, but sometimes someone is correct and damage ensues.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Wrong. Please read previous posts.

In crowded anchorages it is sometimes best to raft up with other boats for the night. I do this often and enjoy the company of other sailors. Rafting up does have it's own set of dangers though and not all locations and conditions are suitable for it.

Is that something they taught you at SUNY?

A raft-up in a crowded anchorage does a great dis-service to the other folks there, especially in squally conditions, for it will not behave like any other anchored vessel. Of course, rafts never drag, never get their multiple (if used) rodes tangled when the raft rotates, and there are never rigs tangled when a big wake rips through the anchorage. There are far more opportunities for damage in a raft-up than in even a crowded anchorage.

Re your experience: Could you please point us to your posts where you desribe your experience. So far, what I have found tells us that you were a merchant mariner with a lot of miles, that you had m/m training at SUNY, and that you have had boats for 45 years, and that you now own a small day-sailor/racer yacht.

That does not relate much to your cruising experience. Most cruisers are happy to share experiences with specific boats in specific places in specific time frames. Such knowledge about you helps us understand your points of view, and lends veracity to your posts. Lacking such info leads us to discounting your statements and suggestions. Not fair? Invasion of privacy? Could be, but that's how many of us feel, especially in the face of statements like yours about never anchoring with overlapping swing circles. From my amateur observation point, that philosophy is true of anchoring of merchant ships, but not for cruising yachts.

You are free to tell us whatever you wish; we are free to interpret what you say however we see fit in that info environment.

Jim

[StuM]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Wrong. Please read previous posts.

Sorry, I must have missed them all. Just to clarify, could you point me to any of your previous posts which actually answer the questions:

"And how many of those miles were in small boats?"
and
"In how many harbors have you anchored a cruising sailboat?"

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'm guessing you've never even seen a crowded anchorage, to post this kind of nonsense.

Attachment 134656

Another one for the edification of the ill informed

[Don C L]

Well, this has been an interesting thread. But I'd just like to go back to something you said, Jim, that very often works for me too. I'll often swing by the boats in the anchorage and check in with them in a sense. They feel better, and if there are any problems or bumps in the night, you are more likely to hear a friendly voice in the dark and wind than someone cursing you.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

So, what is the prudent cruiser to do? We've found that if close proximity seems likely, making verbal contact before anchoring helps defuse the situation.
Jim

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by StuM

Sorry, I must have missed them all. Just to clarify, could you point me to any of your previous posts which actually answer the questions:

"And how many of those miles were in small boats?"
and
"In how many harbors have you anchored a cruising sailboat?"

Please learn to take a little initiative on your own. I'm not going to spoon feed you.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Please learn to take a little initiative on your own. I'm not going to spoon feed you.

All hat,no cattle... comes to mind


Jim

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Is that something they taught you at SUNY?

A raft-up in a crowded anchorage does a great dis-service to the other folks there, especially in squally conditions, for it will not behave like any other anchored vessel. Of course, rafts never drag, never get their multiple (if used) rodes tangled when the raft rotates, and there are never rigs tangled when a big wake rips through the anchorage. There are far more opportunities for damage in a raft-up than in even a crowded anchorage.

Jim

Raft-ups are common practice in a lot of areas. They are necessary to get more boats in a smaller anchorage. If you open your eyes you will see one in the pictures posted above. Like I said before there are conditions that would make rafting-up ill advised. Sorry you missed it.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

All hat,no cattle... comes to mind


Jim

Whatever that means.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Is that something they taught you at SUNY?

Jim

Your jealousy is showing and it's not pretty.