Mooring Etiquette : Questions

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I have been thanked now a few times by PM for the anchoring diagrams in Post 88 and 92.

I'm glad people have found them useful, but I would like to reiterate that these are NOT MY WORK! The sources are indicated in the posts. One is from Sail, and the other from an excellent blog called A Lifestyle of Sailing and Traveling.. Proper credit and attribution, where it's due.

Perhaps it is because I sail in more remote areas, but to me, the lower diagram is ridiculous. With only a 20 degree windshift either way, everyone will be over top of everyone elses anchor. If that is only a small section of a large anchorage, equally filled, it could be that 20 people would have to move for one to get out.

Looks like a can of worms to me.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Zai

After reading this thread a picture comes to my mind. I see a small anchorage will all of the participants of this thread (including myself). It could be quite humorous, but in the end I believe would all work out even with all of the differences.

I guess I am the eternal optimist.

With one boat moored by the stern well away from everyone else?

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Zai

After reading this thread a picture comes to my mind. I see a small anchorage will all of the participants of this thread (including myself). It could be quite humorous, but in the end I believe would all work out even with all of the differences.

I guess I am the eternal optimist.

Bow or stern? Rudder removed or in what position? Overlapping circles or not? Has anyone discussed kellets yet?

[groundtackle]

Can we all agree to set 5 anchors.
ce

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Perhaps it is because I sail in more remote areas, but to me, the lower diagram is ridiculous. With only a 20 degree windshift either way, everyone will be over top of everyone elses anchor. If that is only a small section of a large anchorage, equally filled, it could be that 20 people would have to move for one to get out.

Looks like a can of worms to me.

Par for the course in crowded anchorages -- Caribbean, Med.

Generally people don't have to move for someone to get out.

Boats never swing into each other.

If a boat starts dragging in such a crowd, it can be a big problem. That's why I like to do as Jim does, and anchor away from the anchor symbols, especially if the weather might be boisterous. But in a lot of places there are limited feasible anchorages with decent shelter, and you just don't have any choice. BVI is one example.

Sometime a chain gets laid over someone else's chain, and you get a tangle if the first guy pulls his anchor up before the second guy. Not really a big deal in reasonable weather -- just takes a bit of cooperation. In these waters, most of us carry an "anchor thief" -- a hook with two lines in it, with which you can grab and lift out of the way, someone else's chain, then release it.

The same problem -- chain tangles -- is even more common when Med mooring -- then you have a bunch of anchors very close to each other, with the boats cheek to jowl, stern-to the quay.


Different waters, different conditions, require different techniques.

[Zai]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yeah! Let's all raft up!

Yeah with two stern anchors also!!

[liveaboard60]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

And how many of those miles were in small boats? In how many harbors have you anchored a cruising sailboat?

snip]

Catching up on the thread when I ran across the references to serving in a uniformed Naval service translates to boating experience, I had to grin a little..

On some of the boats I have seen (with crew's larger than the population of towns in which I have lived), a carrier's worth of underway time, wouldn't equate to experiences discussed in this forum..

Still it has been a lively thread.. But there is has been one point which (at least to this point) had not been addressed.. As I read through it, my thoughts turned to the guy you stop behind at the light, only to have them move forward because they weren't comfortable how close you stopped behind..

There is a margin for safety, and then there is a margin for comfort.. However nothing in this thread to this point has put forth an argument the situation WOULD lead to a collision.. It has just been "if this", and "then this" occurs, it just simply "might" happen.. Something very clear to both captains as being unsafe..

However, let's say the captain on the second boat doesn't feel the position is unsafe.. Sure the boats could come as close as 40' from each other at extreme but all is secure and problems are not likely to occur.. Now it changes to a margin of comfort question..

If it is a matter of safety, I don't think anyone would disagree the second boat should move.. Otherwise it would have to be something negotiated between the two captains.. A negotiation to make it "comfortable".. Such as assuring the other captain you are aware and will be on watch through the night, ready to take action as needed..

flk k

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by liveaboard60

Catching up on the thread when I ran across the references to serving in a uniformed Naval service translates to boating experience, I had to grin a little..

On some of the boats I have seen (with crew's larger than the population of towns in which I have lived), a carrier's worth of underway time, wouldn't equate to experiences discussed in this forum..

Still it has been a lively thread.. But there is has been one point which (at least to this point) had not been addressed.. As I read through it, my thoughts turned to the guy you stop behind at the light, only to have them move forward because they weren't comfortable how close you stopped behind..

There is a margin for safety, and then there is a margin for comfort.. However nothing in this thread to this point has put forth an argument the situation WOULD lead to a collision.. It has just been "if this", and "then this" occurs, it just simply "might" happen.. Something very clear to both captains as being unsafe..

However, let's say the captain on the second boat doesn't feel the position is unsafe.. Sure the boats could come as close as 40' from each other at extreme but all is secure and problems are not likely to occur.. Now it changes to a margin of comfort question..

If it is a matter of safety, I don't think anyone would disagree the second boat should move.. Otherwise it would have to be something negotiated between the two captains.. A negotiation to make it "comfortable".. Such as assuring the other captain you are aware and will be on watch through the night, ready to take action as needed..

flk k

That was in response to someone claiming experience with SUNY Merchant Marine.. back in the 60's we trained sailing 27ft Montague whalers and 32ft cutters.. those were our lifeboats, with oars not motors..
It was just a comeback to a silly statement.. but it served as a good grounding for sailing and surviving in the tradition of Bligh.
As for being on top of someones anchor.. or them on yours.. it happens often in Portimao and and many other places, folk are quite happy to motor forwards a few metres while you /they up anchor.. common courtesy's.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Zai

Yeah with two stern anchors also!!

:smirk:

You guys are baaaad . . . . . . .

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by boatman61

As for being on top of someones anchor.. or them on yours.. it happens often in Portimao and and many other places, folk are quite happy to motor forwards a few metres while you /they up anchor.. common courtesy's.

Most of the time that's definitely true for me too 'round here, especially if you have chatted with the folks first to establish a good rapport and to let them know you are not a blithering idiot with a bad attitude.... NOT to suggest that anyone here is a blithering idiot or possesses a bad attitude!

[charliehows]

reminds me of a night i spent on anchor in a particularly nasty east coast low - wind strong enough to flip my dinghy (with o/bd) - a bunch of crustys had come in during the afternoon in a ferro junker and slopped the pick down on top of a 65' camper and nicholson - the woman aboard the c&n had to spend most of the night motoring back and forth to avoid the abandoned blockhouse

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by charliehows

reminds me of a night i spent on anchor in a particularly nasty east coast low - wind strong enough to flip my dinghy (with o/bd) - a bunch of crustys had come in during the afternoon in a ferro junker and slopped the pick down on top of a 65' camper and nicholson - the woman aboard the c&n had to spend most of the night motoring back and forth to avoid the abandoned blockhouse

One advantage those with smaller boats may have is the ability to drop the whole thing, buoy it and move, and retrieve it later (as long as you have sufficient spare rode and anchor readily available.) Given someone upwind of me I don't trust, over my anchor, who won't move and/or who left the boat, and for whatever reason, weather or sea conditions, I cannot retrieve my anchor safely, I'd certainly consider it. With a larger boat, rough conditions, not sure. I'd probably motor up, drop a second bow anchor to pull me to one side or the other so that when the thing drags it doesn't take me out, and when it takes my anchor with him, I have a second. The only thing then I'd worry about there is that if he drags, hooks my bow anchor and takes it, my other bow anchor may end up holding us both if I can't jettison the first. Had a night like that once, but fortunately I didn't have anyone upwind of me then. Wind and seas came up and at about 3am we all started dragging. Older couple between me and the beach in a beautiful wood sloop never did wake up, but their anchor re-set after about 50 yds. A fishing boat behind me dragged away about a half mile till they woke up just before going on the rocks. I dragged about 25 yards too before the anchor re-set.. but I didn't sleep at all that night...

[kmacdonald]

Any way you look at it, the real danger is the sh@t faced boaters causing the majority of accidents.

[kmacdonald]

Well gentlemen, I just returned from another successful raft-up. With the large number of boats involved and limited space we decided to deploy two anchors from the stern of the next to the end boats. Although it was entirely successful, there was some discussion as to which boats should deploy the anchors.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Well gentlemen, I just returned from another successful raft-up. With the large number of boats involved and limited space we decided to deploy two anchors from the stern of the next to the end boats. Although it was entirely successful, there was some discussion as to which boats should deploy the anchors.

Photos or it just a story.