Midship Cleat

[Cotemar]

Your fighting the solution. Install a midship cleat and enjoy the landing.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by tsl

Sorry, I did not make myself clear:
My boat is 20,000 lbs.

I probably should have looked at your boat size first , in any event whilst I have little doubt the one I pictured would stay attached to the sidedeck - I do have doubts that using it as a brake would go well in regard to the bit that folds .

But there are other (and more substantial) designs out there, indeed I bought one but later rejected it as needed a drain and that not easy to do in the location needed on my boat (and my cleat for occasional use only).

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by tsl

Sorry, I did not make myself clear:
My boat is 20,000 lbs. I

My goal: I want to be able to spring into my slip.(Placing a line midships and attaching it to the aft dock cleat so it pulls the boat into the pier as the line tightens) Same as Rakuflames but my slip has the prevailing winds to my back. I often need to be coming in faster than I want. The dock crew is good at stopping boats with a spring line because of this prevailing wind condition.

I use and will continue to attach spring lines to fore and aft cleats to hold the boat in place.

If I install a midship cleat I would also cut a fairlead in the slotted toe rail. So as the line stops the forward momentum of the boat, a large load will be on this fairlead. (alternative) If I attach the spring line to the forward cleat and pass it through a slot in the toerail or cut a fairlead midship. The load stopping the momentum of the boat will be largely pulling aft with less athwartship load on the toe rail.

Suggestions?

That's a perforated toe rail, right?

Ever use a snatch block?



You can put them anywhere you want on a perforated toe rail. When I'm sailing solo, I use mine (two) to lead the anchor rode back to the cockpit (without having to undo the otherwise bitter end). Then I can slowly drive up on the anchor, pulling the rode into the cockpit as I do, so there's miniscule risk of driving over the anchor rode.

But you can use them easily to lead lines anywhere.

For the anchor rode, it has the great advantage that it opens, so I don't have to feed all the rode through the block (of course this will only work on rode, not chain). But since I use 30 ft of chain it works pretty well. My boat is 31'.

But their other advantage is that you can put them anywhere you can attach them.

The new ones are very expensive, but I have found four (two were "borrowed" by a "friend" and are gone) at marine yard sales for $20 - $30.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by tsl

Any other ideas?

I have gype preventors permanently attached through a block onto a fairlead at the shrouds back to the cockpit, as a spring just attach a loop to the snap shackle and wrap the inboard end round a winch. Works well, so long as the loop makes it over a cleat. Take the slack up on the winch and engine ahead in tickover then the boat is held and you have as much time as you want to get sorted out.

You need somewhere strong to attach the block though, double the stopping load going through it.

[s/v 'Faith']

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Your fighting the solution. Install a midship cleat and enjoy the landing.

+1

Really is worth it (IMHO).

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Cheap and Boat should never be used in the same sentence.

Cheap is something you buy at Walmart.

I would like to disagree with you, your comment is a perfectly valid use of cheap and boat in the same sentence. (the other's I can think of all have something to do with "I told you so")

The midship cleat is very important, often overlooked for the sake of saving money. It's just a necessary tie point at a dock, springing in and out and a side tow. The unbroken perforated toe rail looks pretty...but a chock and a sturdy cleat (maybe a good quality fold down) would be better....just depends on where your priorities lay, which is more important, cosmetics or function (BTW the cosmetics of a hull screwed up by an improperly tied up boat is ugly).

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

I would like to disagree with you, your comment is a perfectly valid use of cheap and boat in the same sentence. (the other's I can think of all have something to do with "I told you so")

The midship cleat is very important, often overlooked for the sake of saving money. It's just a necessary tie point at a dock, springing in and out and a side tow. The unbroken perforated toe rail looks pretty...but a chock and a sturdy cleat (maybe a good quality fold down) would be better....just depends on where your priorities lay, which is more important, cosmetics or function (BTW the cosmetics of a hull screwed up by an improperly tied up boat is ugly).

My boat has been hip-towed a couple of times quite successfully without a mid-cleat, once in storm conditions.

I personally think there's nothing pretty about a toe rail. However, there are a lot of PRACTICAL things about a toe rail. The lack of a mid-cleat certainly doesn't prevent a safe hip-tow.

[carstenb]

Use the shroud chainplate. It will hold

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Use the shroud chainplate. It will hold

Here in hurricane country, you want spring lines that go past the middle of the boat anyway. Spider webbing your boat, whether in a canal, gunk hole or a marina, will require very long spring lines.

[wolfenzee]

I live in the PNW.....even if you had big meaty chain plate....line wouldn't last long tied up to it. 45kt winds w/60kt gusts for days at a time coming from weird angles, make a substantial midship cleat essential (I have seen fenders blow out when people tie up against a finger). And the creaking and moaning of my lines made me feel concerned about my midship tie (2" thick 7" high fir bulwarks), though the line I was using only had an 8,000lb breaking strength....two spring lines to keep boat off finger, one off bow and one off midship. When tieing up your boat, the maximum strength of anything should not be a concern....because you should have exceeded it so much you don't need to worry.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

I live in the PNW.....even if you had big meaty chain plate....line wouldn't last long tied up to it. 45kt winds w/60kt gusts for days at a time coming from weird angles, make a substantial midship cleat essential (I have seen fenders blow out when people tie up against a finger). And the creaking and moaning of my lines made me feel concerned about my midship tie (2" thick 7" high fir bulwarks), though the line I was using only had an 8,000lb breaking strength....two spring lines to keep boat off finger, one off bow and one off midship. When tieing up your boat, the maximum strength of anything should not be a concern....because you should have exceeded it so much you don't need to worry.

That's really good advice. Any line will lose strength over time, and any knot in the line weakens it at that point ... and the lines aren't much use until they're attached to something. I think buying line can be like buying anchors. The store may "downsize you" so the price doeesn't boot you out the door. For instance, West Marine sells truly awful anchor kits with Danforth anchors and only 6' of chain (and rode that's too short as well). The size recommendations are too lightweight in my opinion as well, but it all make anchors "more affordable."

That's short-sided. You need your anchor to hold in a strong current or a storm.

[valhalla360]

Where are your winches located?

We often use ours depending on how things line up. If it can drag the boat forward at 9kts, it should be strong enough for springing.

[tsl]

Thanks for the input. Yes, I must agree, a midship cleat is best but I would have to notch the toe rail for a fair lead / chock and that would require removing it to properly anodize the raw aluminum. My toe rail bolts are glassed in (no leaks and I plan to keep it that way). I'll someday replace the toe rail completely and then add the midship cleat. Until then, a snatch block seems to be the way to go.
Again I need this for docking maneuvers not to tie up the boat. The cleats I have now are sufficient for that.
I like running a line from the bow cleat and using a snatch block midships to maximize the length and therefore the stretch but I must admit that asking an inexperienced guest to attach this line to that (midship)cleat and toss it to the attendant when we approach (under the lifeline please) is very simple while asking them to rig a line to a forward cleat (that you can't see clearly)and set a snatch block is too much to ask and asking for trouble.
Again thanks for the input and I think we all agree on the value of a spring line attached to a midship cleat for short handed docking.
Too bad they were not always installed at the factory.

[JPA Cate]

[QUOTE=tsl;1258598] is best[COLOR="Red"] but I would have to notch the toe rail for a fair lead / chock and that would require removing it to properly anodize the raw aluminum[COLOR]. [QUOTE]

Erroneous assumption. You could install them on blocks that raise them enough to clear the toe rail, with a strong backing plate underneath; and you will then have them for everything you might have liked a strong mid-ship cleat for.

Ann

[Bash]

Originally Posted by tsl

Suggestions?

For the usage you describe, the best course of action would be to install a properly backed midship cleat. The real thing, not a slider attached to a track.

I have had proper midship cleats on my last two boats, and they're the bees knees. The larger a boat gets in terms of LOD, the more useful they become.