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Old 08-04-2014, 16:42   #46
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Hmmm - digging in anchors on dry land is something I've had limited success with. I have a hunch that, unless you dig down to a level which is permanently wet (even at low tide) the sand is not sufficiently consolidated



This is feasible in places with a low tidal range, or if you dig near the water's edge at low tide.



If I'm right about the consolidation relying on the ground never drying out, (perhaps on a distant analogy with "frost heave") it helps explain some of the differences between anchor testing on the beach and in realistic water depths.

I would agree , nor have I found in general such sandbars magically appear in useful positions either.

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Old 08-04-2014, 18:17   #47
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

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For those experienced(El Pingo) in areas such as Patagonia are there any other important points. Perhaps as Nolex has indicated the term stern tie is perhaps best used in those situations as there are some other points vs stern tied to a jetty/wall in med mooring fashion.
Hmmmm, important points? Maybe... its different to tying to wall in some Greek harbour I guess.

My two pesos woth.. In the last 10 years I have 'cast anchor' in about 200 different anchorages in Chilean Patagonia, south of Boca del Guafo better than 90% of those have involved lines ashore. Most of these have involved multiple visits.
Rope used is 12mm polyprop... floats... holds a 39 foot 8 tonne boat no probs. Stowed in 'balsas para verduras' ( they cost about 20 cents and last about a year) which have the 'mouth' held open by sewing in about a metre of garden hose to form a hoop) which I hang under the boom when deploying and retrieving. I have two full coils and two half coils ( for use with 4 line tie ups). You don't often need a full coil but when you do need it you really need it.
Some people use laundry baskets.
Some use rope reels which I meself find little merit in.... awkward when getting lines in... you can stow directly into the bags.... wear good waterproof rubber gloves.... its a bugger in winter handling wet shore lines....

Running the lines.... ?
I use the smallest Achilles dinghy they make... 20 year old and still going strong... Mariolina and Giorgio , authors of 'The Italian Book' , use a folding kayak.

Routine? Usually we are 2 up.... crew drops the anchor and when I have backed up far enough they hop in the dinghy and head off with the first line... while they are getting in dinghy I drop in as much line as I have time for... they loop end of shore line over their shoulders and tie the longggggg dinghy painter to their belt... leaves hands free when getting ashore.
Anchorages vary.... sometimes you can get a tree without getting out of the dinghy... othertimes a bit of mountain goat blood would help. I have 'closed' cleats and I feed the rope through so it wont jump out if the tree is 'at altitude'

Quite often the tree is tiny... things grow slowly hereabouts... the roots probably go to china. Sometimes the undergrowth is too thick to get ashore.

I know a few with bad holding but the majority are good having simply been formed when a bloody big terremoto dropped the left hand edge of the Andes into the Pacific back in the dreamtime.

Sometimes you are anchored well out and use a lot of line... other times you can touch the rocks ( all the attached pix including number 8 were taken when using lines ).

Sometimes I use 4 lines, sometimes I go nose in if the wind is blowing out of of the caleta, sometimes I use three lines and row out a kedge.

Swim out lines? I don't think so.....
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Old 08-04-2014, 21:05   #48
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

Hey, Frank,

Thanks for sharing the pics!

Ann
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Old 08-04-2014, 21:42   #49
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

+1 on the photos and info, Thanks!

(PS typo alert: presume you meant "bolsas" not "balsas"?)
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Old 08-04-2014, 21:52   #50
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

Thanks El Pinguino,

Pictures tell a story.

How often is it that you really need all those ropes.

I imagine without then any wind shift from any direction could mean you are on rocks. That would be more than sufficient reason.

Cheers
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Old 08-04-2014, 21:59   #51
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
+1 on the photos and info, Thanks!

(PS typo alert: presume you meant "bolsas" not "balsas"?)
Well there are balsas para verduras and bolsas para balsa...depends what you are shopping for
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Old 08-04-2014, 22:24   #52
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

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How often is it that you really need all those ropes.
While there are plenty of pure anchorages there are even more nooks similar to the ones in the pics.

Parmelia... the wide open one in the previous set you could lie just at anchor but then on a real windy night you would be scooting all over the place.... the wind coming off the land tends not to come from a fixed direction and is also gusty.

In the nooks you just tuck in as close as you dare... most times the wind may be 40 50 knots at the mast head while calm on deck.... the plan being for the wind to be blowing out of the caleta rather than into it. In the first pic here ( Caleta Olla) even though some distance off the beach it is invariably calm on board while blowing hard at sea level about 50 metres further out...

4 ropes is always better than 2...if you can run them. I've only had a bad time when secured with lines on three occasions... three anchorages crossed off my list....
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Old 08-04-2014, 22:48   #53
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

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... three anchorages crossed off my list....
Care to share their names? better still, the stories?
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Old 09-04-2014, 00:34   #54
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

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Care to share their names? better still, the stories?
Seems you may be planning a visit, no??

Seno Venas Abierto , 44*03S, 73*11W.
Anchored with 2 lines in settled NW conditions. Lying in my bunk down the back... dinghy lashed down over the hatch, wind comes away from the SW down the Seno, what I didn't know was that just out of sight to the south of the seno was a bloody great cliff/rockwall.... NW'ly was hitting that and instead of going up and over was going down and out the seno. One minute lying in bunk looking up at hatch.. black... next minute looking up at the hatch...grey... does this remind you of the Lone Ranger / Tonto joke with a new punchline?

Out of bunk.... dinghy has escaped from under lashings and is trying to get down companionway into cabin ... I now lash it down through grablines etc.
So boat lying with all weight on stbd shore line... *nasty* rocky shore 10 metres away under port bow....possibly the closest I have come to losing her...
Come daylight nice clear blue sky, gentle breezes..... cup thingos on wind instrument gone walkabout...

Caleta Uriarte, west end Estrecho de Magallanes, 53* 04W, 73*48W.
While heading towards Puerto Williams headed by easterlies after entering E de M at Isla Tamar. Decided to overnight in Uriarte, anchor and two lines. Wind comes away from SW overnight i.e. on the nose... stern lines very slack in AM boat a lot closer to beach... anchor dragging slowly in kelp.

Caleta Luis 54*21S, 71*48W anchored in very settled conditions , no wind of any note for last few days.... an hour later a big surge starts working its way into the caleta for no reason... the outlook is east down Canal Magdalena... but we are getting pushed back onto a rock face with a good chance of getting rudder post rammed northwards up through the deck.... buggered orf muy pronto....

Thats it....
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:39   #55
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Hmmm - digging in anchors on dry land is something I've had limited success with. I have a hunch that, unless you dig down to a level which is permanently wet (even at low tide) the sand is not sufficiently consolidated
This is feasible in places with a low tidal range, or if you dig near the water's edge at low tide.
Yes, You are right of course. It is my fault to cause misunderstanding. My post was not elaborate enough and I'm still "thinking Med, no-tidal, way"
There are some small, old harbours (mainly in Greece, but not only) being extremely shallow on one side. This shallow can even transfer to the tiny stretch of the beach. Often on such a side of harbour there is not any quay or mole to give You strongpoint for a long lines, but You can bury the spare anchor (anchors) into the bottom just under the water's edge. The beach itself is not the best point to dig an anchor probably. This is what I meant. Not a very often situation, just good to remember, that a shallow on windward can be also of some help

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Old 09-04-2014, 01:47   #56
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

El Pinguino, thank You a lot for Your posts and for the photos
Interesting to learn about places where most of us will never go, so not only prospective penguin visitors should be grateful for sharing

On the other hand - Your photos can make a good illustraton for the lecture: How to anchor tied to shore in Mediterranean cove
Techniques are generally the same all around, places differ and sometime demands for equipement...

Surely swimming the line would be difficult there...
Some would need a survival suit, probably
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:56   #57
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

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it is also a good idea to use a floating line as a stern line if tied to the rocks/trees stern too..........
don't ask how i found that one out!
Go on.......... I'll bite.... how did you find that out?
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:12   #58
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

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Go on.......... I'll bite.... how did you find that out?
I asked also...
But Atoll is somehow not ready to share the story, I suppose
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:13   #59
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

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Well there are balsas para verduras and bolsas para balsa...depends what you are shopping for
not having cruised that far south,nor because of my lizard like nature would i want too!(england is too cold for me!)

but my wife and i have a very good friend,celia bull who cruised down there on her boat Selkie,perhaps you have met.

selkie is a shallow draft lifting keel aluminium boat,with good beaching abilities.

i see you have a conventional full keel yacht of moderate draft.

could you enlighten us on the benifits if any of having a boat such as selkie in the area?
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:26   #60
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Re: Mediterranean mooring

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Go on.......... I'll bite.... how did you find that out?
when still reversing,and sending someone ashore with a sinking nylon line at the same time,if you are not very careful it is very easy to pick up a good 50 ft of line in the propeller before it stops the engine..........

you are then at the mercy of the prevailing wind,often gusty,normally from astern untill you can dive over the side and unwind the ball around the prop!

if you are really unlucky and the bay has a drop off,and deep you can end up drifting with the anchor chain hanging straight down 60-70 meters.

if you are really really unlucky this happens in front of a beach bar and provides entertainment for the holidaymakers afternoon....................
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