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Old 26-05-2014, 04:44   #316
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Well, my EXTENSIVE EXPERIENCE (living in Denmark), is that topless female crews generate lots of "helpful" male attention
It would be nice to have You moored next to sometime, as - apparently - we have not only similar dogs, but also a lot of experiences to share...


Cheers,


Tomasz
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Old 26-05-2014, 04:45   #317
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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LEAVING THE SLOT FROM MED MOORING

For most of the time leaving the berth (I prefer to call it “slot”, as it is usually tight place between other boats) from the Med mooring is the easy part. Still better to stick to some general rules.
Before a leaving prepare everything ready for untangling the crossed anchors. You can never be sure if Your anchor is not fouled (even by abandoned and forgotten chain and anchor) and being prepared will save precious time and allow for minimum fuss in the harbour.
If there is even very light crosswind remove the leeward mooring line. Departure with only one line back will be easier and safer.
If Your mooring line is made fast on the shore, better rig a slipping mooring line (with both ends on boat) for Your departure and remove the proper mooring line. This way You do not need to rely on somebody’s help from the shore and do not take a risk of miscommunication.
If You are moored by permanent mooring line or to the mooring buoy, engage Your engine forward and try to adjust the revs so, as to have the boat balanced and keeping her station just under the power. Now You can drop the permanent mooring line or slip the bow mooring line from the buoy without hassle. After this You can slip the stern mooring line (or lines) and go out.
If You are laying to Your own anchor remember that loosing Your stern mooring line (or lines) will “catapult” the boat forward just under the weight of the anchor chain dropping to the bottom. It is not a bad thing at all, as You can leave the slot without engine engaged (less risk of fouling the prop), but You will need quite fast working anchor winch to take up the clack on the chain quickly enough (for the sake of Your boat’s gelcoat better not to retrieve the chain from under the hull). You can leave the slot in slower manner under power, but You need to slacken the chain a good bit before slipping stern line.
Try to approach Your chain from leeward side (one more reason for putting out a lot of chain when mooring, as You have more room now) and correlate the speed of boat with a speed of Your windlass. The chain should be quite loose all the time and You need to retrieve it almost vertically. If You will try to retrieve the chain under the load You will almost surely break Your anchor free to early, dragging it through the bottom in final part of approach. This is the recipe for catching another anchor chain and sometime the multiple ones. Better to avoid it, untangling is never nice and often dirty exercise… Doing everything properly You will have Your anchor unmoved to the very last moment and will be breaking it out from the most favourable position, from just over the top.
Of course, leaving the slot is easy if there is no substantial crosswind.
If You are not so happy and crosswind is pushing Your bow it is necessary to be extremely cautious when leaving the slot. Basically You need to aim Your bow to the windward, to compensate for the crosswind as much as possible. If You have the bow thruster installed, it can be of great help in keeping the bow to the wind. If it is powerful enough (for given wind strength) may be You will be even able to use a little of lee helm, to not close the leeward boat by Your stern. Unhappily in most situations with crosswind Your stern will be close to the leeward boat at the exit of the slot. It is most tricky moment, as You generally need to engage some (but not too much) of the lee helm to take the stern of Your boat off the anchor chain of the leeward boat. Allowing the rudder to touch the chain will probably lead to the most unpleasant situation, with Your boat T-boned against the bow of leeward boat, with her anchor chain between Your keel and rudder. The quite serious damage to both boats is rather more probable than no in such a situation.
Too much of lee helm will turn Your boat over the anchor chain of the leeward boat, so in stronger crosswind You need to apply more revs rather, than more of lee helm. In a substantial crosswind Your boat will inevitably cross over the anchor chain of the leeward boat, the trick is to do it far enough from her bow, to clear the chain without touching it. You can assess easily how far forward is the safe crossing place. You can do it before leaving, with steady head. Look at the chain of the leeward boat and calculate the height of her bow and the distance from the bow to the point, where the chain is disappearing underwater. It give You the possibility to roughly estimate, where it is deep enough to pass over the chain. Add some distance to be on the safe side, and when leaving do Your best to not cross neighbour’s chain closer to his bow.
In very heavy crosswind think twice if it is necessary to leave. The nice dinner at the nearby tavern, latte, cappuccino or frappe in the quayside café and glass of wine make for good alternative. If the leaving is really necessary, better ask for help.
Quite good solution is the assistance of small motor boat. Can be local boat, but even small RIB tender with outboard will do, if operated competently. The RIB need a bridle at the stern, and not long slip line (both ends on the departing yacht) should be put through the bridle. The person (better two) in the RIB should sit rather towards the bow. The RIB can now pull the bow of the departing yacht at an angle towards the wind, replacing or supplementing the bow thruster. I did this service twice to the boats forced by circumstances to leave in really fierce crosswind and it worked well, even with my small 2.5 meter RIB and 5 HP outboard. The downside is, You need to trust somebody, whose capabilities You can not be sure…
Other possibility is departing kept by long line ashore. Better to borrow such a line, as it is definitely better and safer to leave it at place at the end, than retrieve it on board. Line should be made fast on strong enough point on the quay and led through the fairlead to the primary winch. Better to use the fairlead on the side of the boat, but quite close to stern. If such is not available, stern fairlead should do also. With the line controlled on the winch, You can put it out slowly, balancing the boat by the throttle and keeping the bow to the wind. Not very easy exercise, but perfectly doable, if You know Your own boat well. At the moment when Your stern is passing the bow of the leeward boat, it is the time to slip the line (throwing it out of fouling range) – the people on shore can take care of retrieving it. You need be well fendered, also at the windward side, as Your boat will tend to push to windward, and You will probably need to apply some of lee helm to get her moving straight forward.
You can invent many other ways of departing in crosswind, using the help and lines passed from the boat to windward of Yours, but I still believe that the another evening in friendly tavern and nice café is best thing to do in strong crosswind in the harbour…
Excellent writeup!!!

I'm going to print that out and keep it safe on board.

I just had my first experience with the Baltic version of this -- bows-to instead of stern-to the quay, and using a buoy with a long handle on it.

In a 15 knot cross wind it was -- err -- challenging. Would have been really hard without a bowthruster -- this is one of those situation where a thruster really pays for itself.

We got in and out ok, but I learned a lot watching an experienced and skillful German couple next to us. The wife picked up the buoy already at the bow, threaded the stern line through it (which she had carried with her to the bow), handed it over to her husband, then went up to the bow to deal with getting the bow line on. So already while still just approaching the quay, the helmsman had a stern line around a winch and so control over the boat -- very cool technique.

I can't see my bow from my helm, so avoided smashing the quay only by luck. I think I'll put a fender up there next time.

How in hell you would do this single handed I have no clue. Fortunately I had crew.

I will buy one of those Baltic bow ladders as soon as I can. I hurt my foot jumping off the bow pulpit onto the quay. Also useful would be one of those long-handled hooks for catching the buoy line.

Any tips from an experienced Baltic sailor like you, DoubleWhiskey, would be much appreciated.
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Old 26-05-2014, 05:48   #318
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Excellent writeup!!!

I'm going to print that out and keep it safe on board.

I just had my first experience with the Baltic version of this -- bows-to instead of stern-to the quay, and using a buoy with a long handle on it.

In a 15 knot cross wind it was -- err -- challenging. Would have been really hard without a bowthruster -- this is one of those situation where a thruster really pays for itself.

We got in and out ok, but I learned a lot watching an experienced and skillful German couple next to us. The wife picked up the buoy already at the bow, threaded the stern line through it (which she had carried with her to the bow), handed it over to her husband, then went up to the bow to deal with getting the bow line on. So already while still just approaching the quay, the helmsman had a stern line around a winch and so control over the boat -- very cool technique.

I can't see my bow from my helm, so avoided smashing the quay only by luck. I think I'll put a fender up there next time.

How in hell you would do this single handed I have no clue. Fortunately I had crew.

I will buy one of those Baltic bow ladders as soon as I can. I hurt my foot jumping off the bow pulpit onto the quay. Also useful would be one of those long-handled hooks for catching the buoy line.

Any tips from an experienced Baltic sailor like you, DoubleWhiskey, would be much appreciated.
Dockhead,

I've docked that way hundreds (thousands?) of times. Actually, it is better and easier to back in. The crew stands at the stern (with you) and has a "swedish hook" - see pic below). As the buoy comes by, the crew hooks the buoy and follows it forward, keeping the line taut and playing it out as needed.

Now you, the helmsman, only has to worry about the stern and backing right up to the pier. If you've made sure you have a windward stern line ready, when your stern reaches the pier, you step off and tie up your line. Now the boat is bobbing happily in the slip and after tying up a leeward line and fixing the buoy line, it is time for a drink.

If you don't trust the hook, once you have a windward line in place, motor out to the buoy and slip a line through the buoy eye, replacing the hook.

If you're doing this single handed, fix your "hook" line to a forward cleat and carry the hook astern with you. as you pass the buoy, "hook" it and keeping the bight in your hand,let the line play out as you back into the slip. Drop the hook line over a cleat or winch, grab your stern line and step ashore and tie up (drink time again).

Ain't nothin' to it my man!

These hooks can be bought at most marine stores and shouldn't cost you more that say 30 quid. Since you are going to be sailing inthe Baltic all summer - this is a wise investment (don't ask me how I know this)
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Old 26-05-2014, 05:51   #319
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

By the way, backing in also relieves of the necessity of buying one of those pesky bow ladders. I have one, but you can't use it while docking, so your crew ends up making a "death-defying leap" from your puplit a couple of meters down to the pier.

Such an undertaking does not make help the helmsmans become popular with the crew
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Old 26-05-2014, 06:21   #320
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

Dockhead,

Rereading my scenario above, I realized that I had left out an important point when singlehanding.

Use your bow cleat as a fairlead with the hook line. This keeps everything straight and allows greater control. Throwing a turn or two around a winch means you retain conrol of the line (and your bow) even in a heavy cross wind.

When leaving single handed, rig the bow cleat as a fairlead again, take off your pier lines and motor out, keeping the hook line taut. as you pass the buoy, simply remove the hook and be on your way.


If the cross winds are heavy and space is extremely tight, you can even use the hook line as a bow spring and motor around the buoy, getting your bows up into the wind. Thereafter simply allow the wind to push you back until you can retrieve the hook.

Done properly, this maneuver will gain you thoughtful nods of appreciation from true sailors and looks of absolute astonishment from the less experienced

kiene hekseri - nür behändigkiet!

of course if your deckhand is one of DB's flexiquinns in a bikini, it is entirely possible that no one will notice your superior sailing skills - but such is life (men are an easy lot to understand - why do women find it so difficult?)
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Old 26-05-2014, 06:27   #321
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

I just had my first experience with the Baltic version of this -- bows-to instead of stern-to the quay, and using a buoy with a long handle on it.
I had lost my internet connection for a while (thunderstorm here) and carstenb was first

Surely - with mooring buoy back to the quay is easier and safer - in Baltic also

I hope You can get from carstenb another advice - regarding the use of box mooring between the pillars. His lecture on this will be - surely - better than mine. It is for him a matter of routine

Best regards

Tomasz
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Old 26-05-2014, 06:48   #322
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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Use your bow cleat as a fairlead with the hook line. This keeps everything straight and allows greater control. Throwing a turn or two around a winch means you retain conrol of the line (and your bow) even in a heavy cross wind.
The Swedish Hook is surely more convenient tool, than - for example - Wichard's mooring hook. One thing I'm not sure about it, is up to what maximum working load they make it - Dockhead's boat is quite a heavy one and with lot of windage.


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Of course if your deckhand is one of DW's flexerquinns in a bikini, it is entirely possible that no one will notice your superior sailing skills - but such is life (men are an easy lot to understand - why do women find it so difficult? )
You are most surely meant hoppy's flexerquinns or deck fluffs. I prefer mine to be bikiniless...
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Old 26-05-2014, 07:48   #323
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
The Swedish Hook is surely more convenient tool, than - for example - Wichard's mooring hook. One thing I'm not sure about it, is up to what maximum working load they make it - Dockhead's boat is quite a heavy one and with lot of windage.




You are most surely meant hoppy's flexerquinns or deck fluffs. I prefer mine to be bikiniless...
The swedish hook is simplicity. Mine is made from stainless steel and I suspect that even Dockhead's boat can't break it. I do admit that if we expect winds of over 30 knots, I moor with the hook and then go back a slip a line through the buoy eye.

I also prefer my deck candy bikiniless although here in the Baltic, the number of days per year where my wife is willing to brave the cold is limited (somehow she says a bikini adds warmth - although considering its lack of size, I find this debatable )

If you want to read about docking between two poles in the Baltic in heavy wind - here's a thread I started a couple of years ago - you can learn it here

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ind-90881.html

I find most other docking situations realtively straight forward. Not that I don't cock up occassionally - i do, but the method to be used is pretty straight forward.

I think my worst experience was rafting up on the side of another boat in Helsingør harbour with a 30 knot wind blowing right against me (so it was like landing at a dock with a heavy offshore wind).
The fellow on the ohter boat nearly burst a blood vessel when he saw me coming right at him as if I were going to torpedo him amidships.

In reality, I stopped just shy, my wife jumped over on his boat with a line, made it fast and I used the line as a spring to snuggle up against him.

I didn't think anyone was on the boat and he came up into the cockpit just as we made our approach.

He claimed he didn't need to go back down and change his drawers
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Old 26-05-2014, 08:09   #324
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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I also prefer my deck candy bikiniless although here in the Baltic, the number of days per year where my wife is willing to brave the cold is limited (somehow she says a bikini adds warmth - although considering its lack of size, I find this debatable )
And even for the area covered it can not afford more than blocking the sun from warming the skin... Strange, indeed...
Happily for my wife uneven tan is the worst thing just after the hairs not cared about properly...

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If you want to read about docking between two poles in the Baltic in heavy wind - here's a thread I started a couple of years ago - you can learn it here

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ind-90881.html
Excellent reading, really!

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I find most other docking situations realtively straight forward. Not that I don't cock up occassionally - i do, but the method to be used is pretty straight forward.
Everybody do cock up from time to time

Just good to know how get out from the s#it without starting "disaster domino"
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Old 26-05-2014, 08:35   #325
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Dockhead,

I've docked that way hundreds (thousands?) of times. Actually, it is better and easier to back in. The crew stands at the stern (with you) and has a "swedish hook" - see pic below). As the buoy comes by, the crew hooks the buoy and follows it forward, keeping the line taut and playing it out as needed.

Now you, the helmsman, only has to worry about the stern and backing right up to the pier. If you've made sure you have a windward stern line ready, when your stern reaches the pier, you step off and tie up your line. Now the boat is bobbing happily in the slip and after tying up a leeward line and fixing the buoy line, it is time for a drink.

If you don't trust the hook, once you have a windward line in place, motor out to the buoy and slip a line through the buoy eye, replacing the hook.

If you're doing this single handed, fix your "hook" line to a forward cleat and carry the hook astern with you. as you pass the buoy, "hook" it and keeping the bight in your hand,let the line play out as you back into the slip. Drop the hook line over a cleat or winch, grab your stern line and step ashore and tie up (drink time again).

Ain't nothin' to it my man!

These hooks can be bought at most marine stores and shouldn't cost you more that say 30 quid. Since you are going to be sailing inthe Baltic all summer - this is a wise investment (don't ask me how I know this)
I can't reverse in as I have davits and a RIB hanging off the stern

So bows-to it is for me. Interestingly, in all the Baltic harbors I've been in by now, I haven't seen anyone berthed stern-to the quay.
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Old 26-05-2014, 08:48   #326
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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Interestingly, in all the Baltic harbors I've been in by now, I haven't seen anyone berthed stern-to the quay.
Habit is second nature for most

Well to remember that for long, long time most of Baltic boats were quite small, and - more importantly - very low hulled. View forward and stepping from the bow to quay were not a problem. And the habit settled down well

Add to it lack of self confidence regarding the backing...
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Old 26-05-2014, 09:37   #327
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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I can't reverse in as I have davits and a RIB hanging off the stern

So bows-to it is for me. Interestingly, in all the Baltic harbors I've been in by now, I haven't seen anyone berthed stern-to the quay.
Double Whiskey's reply is correct. It is a matter of habit and for most - small boats.

Interesting with the divats and RIB - silly question perhaps, but what do you do in the Med?

By the way the "swedish hook" is still invaluable - even if you are docking bows to pier
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Old 26-05-2014, 09:52   #328
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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By the way the "swedish hook" is still invaluable - even if you are docking bows to pier.

By the way - thank You for reminding of this tool. More and more mooring buoys in the Med, so good to have one on board also there!
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Old 26-05-2014, 12:16   #329
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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Interesting with the divats and RIB - silly question perhaps, but what do you do in the Med?
I saw once a Moody 54 with a such set up (quite standard one, as I suppose), mooring stern - to in Poros.
They had a long (three part) hydraulic passarelle. The thing was installed somewhat offset to diametral and needed to be first rotated by 90 degrees and then extended.
To use it, it was necessary to lower the RIB almost to the water level, and even with really long passarelle all the arrangement looked somewhat risky (for RIB) to me. With fully extended passarelle the RIB was only about a feet from the pier - too close in the harbour with wash and chop.
May be it is possible (with not so big RIB) to install the quarter passarelle, but I'm not so sure. I don't know exactly how broad is Moody's 54 stern at deck level. If possible, quarter passarelle -even installed at some angle - would be definitely better choice, than the thing I saw in Poros
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Old 26-05-2014, 14:15   #330
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

Writing about davits and tender hanging on the stern, made me remember one omitted topic.
A lot of boats now has a hinged-out bathing platforms. They are useful thing, of course, but...
It is quite common view to see the boat coming back to the pier and mooring with enough distance from it, to keep the rudder safe in the case of forced backward movement, resulting from the wave - made by passing high speed ferry - coming into the harbour or induced by larger vessels manouevering inside the harbour. Next the crew is deploying the bathing platform... In such a way they can reach the quay without any gangplank, passarelle or similar. Unhappily - in the case of abovementioned forced backward movement the deployed bathing platform can easily crash into the wall with devastating effect.
Many times my boat - with the chain looking straight and tight - was moved fiercely toward the wall by two or three feet. You can not avoid it. There is always some of catenary in the chain left. Mooring in different places, sooner or later You will experience such a wave - it is only matter of time.
Some of boats use simple pine plank instead of passarelle. Easy and cheap solution, present on many charter boats. It is almost customary to tie one end of plank to the boat, touching the transom, and other boat to any solid object on the shore, if only available. The base of quay lamp is popular for this
Of course, such secured plank will remain in place, but when the big wave will come, secured gangplank can easily damage the boat (to say nothing about quay lamp...)
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