Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 14-05-2014, 07:41   #241
Moderator
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
Re: Mediterranean Mooring

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
When I am solo, I use a similar technique of a single line and motor when leaving a marina berth when there is a cross breeze or if it is on the nose.

I release the leeward line and ease off the windward line and then run the motor. I balance the throttle and rudder angle against the wind until the boat settles pointing straight ahead with there is plenty of slack on the lazy line. Then I can leisurely drop the lazy line and amble back to the cockpit and release the windward line and leave my beth like a pro

If it is gusty, I tend to take more time learning the gust patterns to time the LL drop. I hurry up back to the cockpit in these conditions
Oh, hoppy, hoppy!
I'm now preparing my final post of the series, regarding leaving the berth from Med mooring
Last post was kind of preliminary to this, and You were fast enough to write half of this already
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2014, 15:12   #242
Moderator
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
Re: Mediterranean Mooring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Tomasz

Your posts are pure gold. Where were you when I needed you in Tonga?

I realised the possibility of what you wrote about -- 'describing an arc' about a single tight line, and adjusting the heading with the propwash over the rudder, to provide complete station-holding with only one line ashore ...

... but almost too late, after sending a crewman ashore with a knife when our anchor suddenly dragged in a squall, Med moored in Nuku'alofa marina.

The wind causing the anchor to drag was from the starboard beam.

The line he was preparing to cut was the starboard quarter sternline
(which was eyespliced, - grrrr - and the loop had been placed over the shore cleat - double grrrr!)

I was planning on a 'cut and run', because the alternative was to bust the spade rudder as the wind backed us into the breakwater we were stern-to.

But then I realised I could get away with creating a bit more slack in the other sternline

So there was no impediment to slewing the bow clockwise into the wind enough to be able to drive the whole boat to starboard towards our neighbour (luckily the marina was only half full so the spacings were generous), as well as away from the breakwater.

I could then hold station for the remainder of the squall, motoring ahead against the stbd sterline, which had been taken to a primary winch. So it was abeam of the rudder, and highly effective.


I never gave the instruction to cut the expensive, heavy, 3 strand line, but the guy ashore touched the sharp blade to it [so it just took the weight of the knife] while awaiting it*, and the strain was such that all the fibres the knife was touching parted. Luckily the line was so oversized that the remainder held!

So I had a bit of splicing to do ... even though I hate loops in shorelines, it wasn't my boat.


* A classic case of the 'strain energy' within a highly stressed, very strong material, causing a rupture to propagate from a tiny surface defect, as we discussed in the BiB2 thread!)

You are much too kind Andrew

I think Your experience with a line parting after small superficial cut should be remembered for one another reason. We all need to have enough cleats and good fairleads to lead each mooring line separately. Even small damage from the chafe can result in failure of the line under dynamic force, even if the remainder of the line is strong enough to withstand quite high static load. To put some additional deck hardware on is well worth investment, and most production boats have no more than half of a reasonable number of cleats...
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2014, 15:25   #243
Moderator
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
Re: Mediterranean Mooring

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post

This is exactly one of the ferries making often troubles in small Greek harbours.
Just imagine the wave, made by this thing going at 26 knots, entering the funnel shaped inlet, with quays in the far end...
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2014, 15:30   #244
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,292
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Mediterranean Mooring

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
This is exactly one of the ferries making often troubles in small Greek harbours.
Just imagine the wave, made by this thing going at 26 knots, entering the funnel shaped inlet, with quays in the far end...
From the view of the ships captain.... he is wondering why you are making a fuss and waving at him........
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2014, 15:40   #245
Moderator
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
Re: Mediterranean Mooring

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
From the view of the ships captain.... he is wondering why you are making a fuss and waving at him........
When You are Med moored in Kioni on Ithaca, he can not see You.
Worse - You can not see him.
All You know is the smallish tsunami entered the harbour, Your boat is elevating three feet up in a blink of an eye and trying to tear the anchor off the bottom
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2014, 16:07   #246
Moderator
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
Re: Mediterranean Mooring

And Kioni itself is really so nice

Click image for larger version

Name:	Kioni.jpg
Views:	140
Size:	137.1 KB
ID:	81352

You can be lulled there, just by sorroundings
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2014, 16:31   #247
Registered User
 
AKA-None's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lake City MN
Boat: C&C 27 Mk III
Posts: 1,380
Re: Assisted Mediterranean Mooring - Thrusters, DP etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
<snip>
I'm trying to remember a brilliant riff which seems to me applicable, about the perils of specialisation, but so far without success. It was by one of the great writers of SF.
Special knowledge can be a terrible disadvantage if it leads you too far along a path that you cannot explain anymore.
Frank Herbert 'Dune'
AKA-None is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2014, 11:32   #248
Moderator
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
Re: Mediterranean Mooring

LEAVING THE SLOT FROM MED MOORING

For most of the time leaving the berth (I prefer to call it “slot”, as it is usually tight place between other boats) from the Med mooring is the easy part. Still better to stick to some general rules.
Before a leaving prepare everything ready for untangling the crossed anchors. You can never be sure if Your anchor is not fouled (even by abandoned and forgotten chain and anchor) and being prepared will save precious time and allow for minimum fuss in the harbour.
If there is even very light crosswind remove the leeward mooring line. Departure with only one line back will be easier and safer.
If Your mooring line is made fast on the shore, better rig a slipping mooring line (with both ends on boat) for Your departure and remove the proper mooring line. This way You do not need to rely on somebody’s help from the shore and do not take a risk of miscommunication.
If You are moored by permanent mooring line or to the mooring buoy, engage Your engine forward and try to adjust the revs so, as to have the boat balanced and keeping her station just under the power. Now You can drop the permanent mooring line or slip the bow mooring line from the buoy without hassle. After this You can slip the stern mooring line (or lines) and go out.
If You are laying to Your own anchor remember that loosing Your stern mooring line (or lines) will “catapult” the boat forward just under the weight of the anchor chain dropping to the bottom. It is not a bad thing at all, as You can leave the slot without engine engaged (less risk of fouling the prop), but You will need quite fast working anchor winch to take up the clack on the chain quickly enough (for the sake of Your boat’s gelcoat better not to retrieve the chain from under the hull). You can leave the slot in slower manner under power, but You need to slacken the chain a good bit before slipping stern line.
Try to approach Your chain from leeward side (one more reason for putting out a lot of chain when mooring, as You have more room now) and correlate the speed of boat with a speed of Your windlass. The chain should be quite loose all the time and You need to retrieve it almost vertically. If You will try to retrieve the chain under the load You will almost surely break Your anchor free to early, dragging it through the bottom in final part of approach. This is the recipe for catching another anchor chain and sometime the multiple ones. Better to avoid it, untangling is never nice and often dirty exercise… Doing everything properly You will have Your anchor unmoved to the very last moment and will be breaking it out from the most favourable position, from just over the top.
Of course, leaving the slot is easy if there is no substantial crosswind.
If You are not so happy and crosswind is pushing Your bow it is necessary to be extremely cautious when leaving the slot. Basically You need to aim Your bow to the windward, to compensate for the crosswind as much as possible. If You have the bow thruster installed, it can be of great help in keeping the bow to the wind. If it is powerful enough (for given wind strength) may be You will be even able to use a little of lee helm, to not close the leeward boat by Your stern. Unhappily in most situations with crosswind Your stern will be close to the leeward boat at the exit of the slot. It is most tricky moment, as You generally need to engage some (but not too much) of the lee helm to take the stern of Your boat off the anchor chain of the leeward boat. Allowing the rudder to touch the chain will probably lead to the most unpleasant situation, with Your boat T-boned against the bow of leeward boat, with her anchor chain between Your keel and rudder. The quite serious damage to both boats is rather more probable than no in such a situation.
Too much of lee helm will turn Your boat over the anchor chain of the leeward boat, so in stronger crosswind You need to apply more revs rather, than more of lee helm. In a substantial crosswind Your boat will inevitably cross over the anchor chain of the leeward boat, the trick is to do it far enough from her bow, to clear the chain without touching it. You can assess easily how far forward is the safe crossing place. You can do it before leaving, with steady head. Look at the chain of the leeward boat and calculate the height of her bow and the distance from the bow to the point, where the chain is disappearing underwater. It give You the possibility to roughly estimate, where it is deep enough to pass over the chain. Add some distance to be on the safe side, and when leaving do Your best to not cross neighbour’s chain closer to his bow.
In very heavy crosswind think twice if it is necessary to leave. The nice dinner at the nearby tavern, latte, cappuccino or frappe in the quayside café and glass of wine make for good alternative. If the leaving is really necessary, better ask for help.
Quite good solution is the assistance of small motor boat. Can be local boat, but even small RIB tender with outboard will do, if operated competently. The RIB need a bridle at the stern, and not long slip line (both ends on the departing yacht) should be put through the bridle. The person (better two) in the RIB should sit rather towards the bow. The RIB can now pull the bow of the departing yacht at an angle towards the wind, replacing or supplementing the bow thruster. I did this service twice to the boats forced by circumstances to leave in really fierce crosswind and it worked well, even with my small 2.5 meter RIB and 5 HP outboard. The downside is, You need to trust somebody, whose capabilities You can not be sure…
Other possibility is departing kept by long line ashore. Better to borrow such a line, as it is definitely better and safer to leave it at place at the end, than retrieve it on board. Line should be made fast on strong enough point on the quay and led through the fairlead to the primary winch. Better to use the fairlead on the side of the boat, but quite close to stern. If such is not available, stern fairlead should do also. With the line controlled on the winch, You can put it out slowly, balancing the boat by the throttle and keeping the bow to the wind. Not very easy exercise, but perfectly doable, if You know Your own boat well. At the moment when Your stern is passing the bow of the leeward boat, it is the time to slip the line (throwing it out of fouling range) – the people on shore can take care of retrieving it. You need be well fendered, also at the windward side, as Your boat will tend to push to windward, and You will probably need to apply some of lee helm to get her moving straight forward.
You can invent many other ways of departing in crosswind, using the help and lines passed from the boat to windward of Yours, but I still believe that the another evening in friendly tavern and nice café is best thing to do in strong crosswind in the harbour…
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2014, 14:58   #249
Moderator
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
Re: Mediterranean Mooring

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
The best way is to get help from he neighbouring boats, fender up , lie against them etc if you need to.
It is of course advisable to get help from other boats, as was pointed out in many posts in this thread.

If You need to lay Your (well fendered, of course) boat against topside of other boat, just remember to do it rather deeper into the slot, where
the crosswind can not turn Your boat any longer. The boat at Your side will be inevitably the leeward one. If You want to pass Your stern mooring line to the shore, it is worth to remember to pass (counterintuitively) the windward line first, as this one should be made fast on the quay first.
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2014, 13:09   #250
Moderator
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
pirate Mediterranean Mooring

ALL HANDS ON DECK TO REPEL BOARDERS !

The title of this post is of course only a joke. On the other hand sometime I can see the boats charging to the mooring slots daringly, with numerous crew on action stations, armed with boathooks and other “small arms” (including even deck brushes on broomsticks) and I’m just expecting to hear this famous (or infamous) “death, death, death!” sound of pirate crew closing for prey…
Somehow German all-male bare boat crews look most menacing for me. Ten or twelve big Nordic guys, armed to teeth with boathooks and broomsticks, on 45 or 50 footer are really impressive…
Other kind of crew I’m always looking around for, include some girls of special kind. You know… gym worked up body… deep tan… kind of self adoration on (rather mindless) face… hand on mast, forestay, shroud, bimini, anything… posture of model posing for a photo…
We even invented new special word (in Polish) to describe this kind of girl. It is “PRĘŻYDŁO”, what will be understandable only for few Polish speaking members here, so I’m mentioning this word just for their sake and fun. It is rather difficult for me to propose new English word to match. If I dare to, it would be something like “FLEXERQUINN”, as they tend to flex their bodies to the extreme… Depending on number of such a girls an board we call the boat single flexerquinn boat, double flexerquinn boat, triple flexerquinn boat and so on…
The problem with such a crews are not the girls, but the guys handling the boat. You can bet they will do anything to impress girls by own (often lacking) sailing skills…
So, if You see the pirate merciless crew or multi flexerquinn boat approaching the mooring slot alongside Your boat be aware!
Frankly speaking, better to be aware when any boat is approaching or leaving the slot on Your side, of course.
If the conditions are not benign You can choose to be not only aware, but prepared also.
Switch on and man the windlass, make a slack on your leeward mooring line, engage the engine and, if possible, have somebody ready with spare fender. In such way You will be well prepared to immediately deal with any developing situation.
So – be prepared to repel boarders!
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2014, 14:37   #251
Moderator
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
Re: Mediterranean Mooring

Talking about boarders...
During our last sailing before my illness we moored in the harbour having smaller French boat on one side. Wind was quite substantial.
I was already feeling myself not very good, so while Beata ventured for some shopping, I retired to our cabin to have some sleep.
Deck Security was in the saloon. Companionway was open wide. One moment some noises awakened me, but I was not sure what they were. Somebody throwing something to water, or what? I slept for some time more and when Beata came back we went together to the nearby cafe, just to hear the story...
A guy from French boat realized that his anchor is not holding well and he decided to put the line to our bow cleat, as it was obvious we were holding much better. Without asking he boarded us and tried to put his line on the cleat. Happily he looked back on time, just to see rather angry, as just awakened without good reason, 125 pounds of the Deck Security advancing from the cockpit...

Click image for larger version

Name:	Deck Security.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	131.9 KB
ID:	81644

Jump to the water occured as a safest choice to unhappy boarder...
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2014, 14:50   #252
mrm
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Poland, EU
Boat: crew on Bavaria 38 Cruiser
Posts: 654
Re: Mediterranean Mooring

A phrase 'Baskerville Hound' comes to mind...
mrm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2014, 14:59   #253
Moderator
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
Re: Mediterranean Mooring

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm View Post
A phrase 'Baskerville Hound' comes to mind...

He is really friendly and nice. He just prefer when guests introduce themselves in the proper way - in our presence
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2014, 15:42   #254
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14,475
Images: 3
Mediterranean Mooring

As a general comment, I'd say most problems occur because the skipper thinks an application of throttle can save the day. Inevitably, by the time that realisation is made. It's too late and the resultant spurt of power converts a minor fracas into the potential for real damage.

I saw a US skippered bareboat in Korcula damage 5 pulpits because of the over application of throttle when it was obvious that he was going to make contact.

The issue of leaving is easy if you secured by the bows with a lazy line system , as you are not constrained by the need to recover an anchor. The only issue being is that you can complete the inevitable hard 90 degree turn often in a confined fairway between opposing pontoons. In some places there can be less then a boat length of space , making it very challenging, doubly so with a wind blowing , as often , especially with modern less immersed forefoots, the bow is blowing downwind as you execute the turn, warping out, politely asking and using you neighbours may often be the only way, I much prefer that exasperated neighbour visage then the appalled at the damage one.

In most case laying to chain, usually against an open quay , you have more room to perform the turns etc. The problem comes when people haven't enough chain and find they over run the chain before they are reliably clear of their neighbours boat and/or chain.

Even more problematic is on discovering you've fouled your anchor, often the skipper at the helm has to go forward to instruct, leaving the wheel unattended and the boat drifting around the anchorage often getting perilously close to others.

It's provided hours of entertainment sitting in dockside cafés watching others. Ever wonder way so many med cafés are right at the dockside edge.......!

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2014, 16:51   #255
Moderator
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
Re: Mediterranean Mooring

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
As a general comment, I'd say most problems occur because the skipper thinks an application of throttle can save the day. Inevitably, by the time that realisation is made. It's too late and the resultant spurt of power converts a minor fracas into the potential for real damage.

I saw a US skippered bareboat in Korcula damage 5 pulpits because of the over application of throttle when it was obvious that he was going to make contact.

The issue of leaving is easy if you secured by the bows with a lazy line system , as you are not constrained by the need to recover an anchor. The only issue being is that you can complete the inevitable hard 90 degree turn often in a confined fairway between opposing pontoons. In some places there can be less then a boat length of space , making it very challenging, doubly so with a wind blowing , as often , especially with modern less immersed forefoots, the bow is blowing downwind as you execute the turn, warping out, politely asking and using you neighbours may often be the only way, I much prefer that exasperated neighbour visage then the appalled at the damage one.

In most case laying to chain, usually against an open quay , you have more room to perform the turns etc. The problem comes when people haven't enough chain and find they over run the chain before they are reliably clear of their neighbours boat and/or chain.

Even more problematic is on discovering you've fouled your anchor, often the skipper at the helm has to go forward to instruct, leaving the wheel unattended and the boat drifting around the anchorage often getting perilously close to others.

It's provided hours of entertainment sitting in dockside cafés watching others. Ever wonder way so many med cafés are right at the dockside edge.......!

Dave
They are best placed for action watching
Free entertainment provided
I always try to look for one with elevated terrace, to have a better view on the harbour!
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mediterranean, mooring

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
6 day itinerary in BVI with kids mooring to mooring askdad Atlantic & the Caribbean 15 04-04-2013 10:09
6 day itinerary in BVI with kids mooring to mooring askdad Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 1 16-03-2013 04:11
Electrified Mooring Field? Mooring Power Mule Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 31 08-04-2010 08:00
Is Mediterranean Climate Turning Caribbean ? GordMay Europe & Mediterranean 0 06-07-2005 10:50

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:15.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.