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Old 27-04-2014, 15:46   #181
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Scope is always king.
So a larger yacht and a smaller yacht will drop a different number of boat lengths from the quay.
It is helpful to translate the ideal drop distance into boat lengths as this is easy to visualise.
Noelex,
it is probably first time here when I dare to disagree with You, at least to some extent

Scope is important, of course, as You always need to have enough scope for given depth at the place of Your anchor set. It is out of discussion.
And I think it is the end of the matter when we are talking the Med mooring with stern tied to the shore (rocks, trees and so on), by quite long lines. The boat is basically free floating, somewhere in the middle (or not so far from the middle) between the shore and the anchor. Cautious skipper will use plenty of scope in such a situation, as swinging is not a problem here, as the boat's movements are restricted by anchor tackle and mooring lines.

It is different in harbours.
And by harbours - in this thread - I understand the places, where You are tethered to the quay or pontoon or breakwater by the stern. They can be more or less protected, but often are quite open to the wind (less to the swell).
You are rather in shallower than deeper water, so You do not need a lot of chain to have a good scope.
Still - there are at least two good reasons, to put out more of the chain and to think in boatlengths rather than a scope.
  1. Incoming waves from the fast ferries. More of chain, more of catenary action, less dynamic force on anchor, less stress on warps, deck fittings, less violent movements of boat - overall safer.
  2. Gusting crosswind. When attached to the wall Your boat is not free floating any more. Less the chain length, more wildly boat movements, more stressing conditions for Your anchor. Think about sring. Short one is high tone, as vibrations are of higher frequency. Long one is low tone, as frequency is lower. Both for comfort and stress avoidance I prefer to be attached to the longer string.
There are some harbours where I'm happy to use all 96 metres of my chain: Skala on Patmos, Agia Eufimia on Cephalonia, Kamares on Sifnos - to name just a few.


There are some, where I regret I can use all this lenght, like Kioni on Ithaca or Simi harbour.


By the way - when using some 80 - 100 meters of chain You are often setting Your anchor at around 10 meters (or even more, but with the bottom raisng towards the bow of the boat).
It make effectively for the scope giving You around 100 % of the holding power of Your anchor - not the bad thing anyway, if You like to think about scope at first


As I know, You both prefer to moor tucked into some picturesque cove, out of people's path.

I'm mostly using "harbours", first because it is easier for our dogs, secondly because Beata just love these Greek villages

Nothing strange our experiences from Greece are a little different



My very best regards


Tomasz
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Old 27-04-2014, 15:51   #182
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

Read hinz book on anchoring, he make the point that in shallow water you need loads more scope then deep, upto 10x scope

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Old 27-04-2014, 15:53   #183
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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Do any of you use the snubber?

Not the proper snubber in the harbour. I use only short lines, to take out the strain off the anchor winch.
When Med mooring with long lines from stern to the shore, yes, I'm using snubber(s).
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Old 27-04-2014, 15:55   #184
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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This is what I use more or less..



Do any of you use the snubber?
Well I do..... a variety of them for different areas.
I have found......... in a strong current, the strain on a snubber HELPS to back into place...and then is great for a softer anchorage.

Just watch your finger if in a hurry.....
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Old 27-04-2014, 15:58   #185
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Mediterranean Mooring

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Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
Not the proper snubber in the harbour. I use only short lines, to take out the strain off the anchor winch.
When Med mooring with long lines from stern to the shore, yes, I'm using snubber(s).

I never use snubbers on the chain in a Med harbour. Often youre about 3 feet from something hard. The last thing you need is any give forward. I don't use snubbers on stern ones either, when I'm snugged tight in. They cause the boat to rhythmically surge back and forward and that's a pain. When I leave the boat for any length of time , I left it out from the dock as far as practical, then I use rubber stern snubbers.

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Old 27-04-2014, 15:59   #186
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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Hmmm. He only got us back the once;

no way we would ever be loyal, or even return customers,

once he demonstrated what a shameless suck-up he was!
Somehow I can not pity him...
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Old 27-04-2014, 16:02   #187
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I never use snubbers on the chain in a Med harbour. Often youre about 3 feet from something hard. The last thing you need is any give forward. I don't use snubbers on stern ones either, when I'm snugged tight in. They cause the boat to rhythmically surge back and forward and that's a pain. When I leave the boat for any length of time , I left it out from the dock as far as practical, then I use rubber stern snubbers.

Dave
I only use one set of lines with a snubber (I actually use a bridle) and allow a surge of around a metre off the stern when it tightens. I can live with the slight swing but as you said, with two torsions the boat can make you shout for Hughie...
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Old 27-04-2014, 16:07   #188
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I never use snubbers on the chain in a Med harbour. Often youre about 3 feet from something hard. The last thing you need is any give forward.
Dave
May be I didn't make it clear enough. IN HARBOUR (tied to the wall) I'm using two short lines ONLY to not have a whole force on windlass. The chain is not very tight, but neither loose. It can give may be two inches of back movement in case of rope's failure, may be even less.
And I keep my stern always at least five feet off the wall.
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Old 27-04-2014, 16:07   #189
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

When reversing into the park position in a strong current, I have the snubbers tight... if the current lessens, the action is for the vessel to move in the opposite direction of the path taken as opposed to anywhere it wants to go.. Its something I can work with... except for once in..............
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Old 27-04-2014, 16:09   #190
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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I only use one set of lines with a snubber (I actually use a bridle) and allow a surge of around a metre off the stern when it tightens. I can live with the slight swing but as you said, with two torsions the boat can make you shout for Hughie...

That's one hell of a passarelle you've got there

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Old 27-04-2014, 16:12   #191
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
That's one hell of a passarelle you've got there

Dave


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You tend to get good at the long jump.

on the other hand, when loading or unloading.. I tighten up on the front. Except for that other time in..........
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Old 27-04-2014, 16:18   #192
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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You tend to get good at the long jump.

on the other hand, when loading or unloading.. I tighten up on the front. Except for that other time in..........
and......... my limited experience is only in Mallorca and Menorca. And I had lots of room off season.
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Old 27-04-2014, 16:21   #193
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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and......... my limited experience is only in Mallorca and Menorca. And I had lots of room off season.

I could never afford to berth in the Balearics anyway

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Old 27-04-2014, 16:26   #194
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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I could never afford to berth in the Balearics anyway

Dave
You dont berth in Mallorca....... you contribute a recognised whole figure percentage to the Spanish monetry crisis.

However, for overnight, off season, Soller, Cala Mayor and Porto Colom can be 'reasonable'. Comparatively. For a few nights maximum then head off back to Spain.
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Old 27-04-2014, 16:52   #195
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Re: Mediterranean Mooring

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post
You tend to get good at the long jump.
I do not remember the exact length of my own passarelle. Due to one of our dogs (overly clever chihuahua) we needed to invest in hydraulic one. It was triple the price of the dog, by the way, but friends (at least four legged) are priceless

Anyway, with the passarelle fully extended, and out of quay, in the reach of looong step (up) of Beata (without jumping, however), we can keep the stern almost two metres from the quay. For the safety it gives, the price of the passarelle is somewhat less painful
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