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Old 01-11-2016, 11:07   #31
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

Thanks for the input about using poly and then using nylon for a snubber!!! Great idea and makes a lot of sense!

I've read that 30' is good for a snubber (Assuming that's 30' each side?)
Any opinions on length for each side (based on a 26' 7,000: gross) boat?
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:26   #32
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

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Originally Posted by Jarel Design View Post
Thanks for the input about using poly and then using nylon for a snubber!!! Great idea and makes a lot of sense!

I've read that 30' is good for a snubber (Assuming that's 30' each side?)
Any opinions on length for each side (based on a 26' 7,000: gross) boat?
I think you're over thinking this. Unless you're all chain you don't need a snubber & with a Mantus you don't need a lot of chain. For a boat your size 10' would easily be enough.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:45   #33
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

Hi Scout,
Thanks for your input... (Really! Not just brushing you aside.)

My background includes working as a fire-fighter (helicopter search and rescue... Too many images stuck in my brain of tragic events caused by "simple" oversight). In my current prototype development work, the one question I never allow is: "What could possibly go wrong?" LOL!

I'm a total safety freak, and over-thinking is part of that. (I will also admit that I can totally get carried away with it, but I remain open and can bring my over-cautious approach back down to reality. LOL!

I will feel MUCH better with more chain. (I can't accept 10', but don't plan to go over 50'... Minimum will be one boat length.) I want my wife and I to be able to go to sleep without ANY questions regarding our anchoring. If that includes a heavier/larger anchor, more chain, thicker rode, etc., we're more than OK with that.



Thanks!
Richard
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Old 01-11-2016, 14:27   #34
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

Richard,

I just noticed that you are in Medford. I'm in Veneta, which is just west of Eugene, so we're only about 3 hours away from you. And coincidentally, I am also in the fire service, being fire chief for Lane Fire Authority. Like you, I probably overthought the whole thing, starting about this time last year. That's how we wound up with the Mantus 25, the 100 ft of 5/16 chain, the Mantus swivel, and a snubber using the Mantus hook. I have a friend I respect very highly, a retired Coastie who teaches for San Juan Sailing in Bellingham, and he strongly advised the 100 ft of chain to withstand the tides and winds we find up in the San Juan and Gulf Islands. His years in the Coast Guard brought him in contact with many boat owners who didn't have adequate ground tackle.

You are more than welcome to come on up and look over our setup and make any sketches you need.

Regards,

Terry Ney
ComPac 27 "SV Paradiso"
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Old 01-11-2016, 14:45   #35
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

Thank you so much for your gracious offer!

It's really hard for me to get away as I work to a deadline (no banker's hours here LOL!). (We rarely "get out".)

We're "hoping" to take a trip up to Portland after Christmas with a wish list to visit Columbia marine Exchange. They have the 25# Mantus and I will either trace or buy it there. I know I want this anchor, so it will be a matter of making it fit (which I feel comfortable doing)... No matter what, I won't be going down in size. (Maybe a challenge and may take some creative problem solving, but that's what I get paid for in my "real world". LOL!

Thank you again!
PS: Nice to hear about your coast guard friend. Sailed the San Juans before and the currents there can get really nasty! Also nice to hear you're a supporter for longer chain! What kind (weight/length etc), boat do you have? Any on the hook experiences with high winds/strong/shifting currents?
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Old 01-11-2016, 15:33   #36
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

Hi again,

Our boat is a ComPac 27, LOA of 30 ft, displacement of 6000 lbs, total weight around 9000 lbs.

Columbia Marine Exchange is a cool store, lots of fun to poke around in, and nice folks who run it. That's where I bought the used windlass that I installed when I upgraded my ground tackle. Also check out Sexton's Chandlery, they are out on Tomahawk Island just past Passion Yachts...they have several rooms of used stuff as well.

Yes on the currents causing anchor drag. Last year with the Bruce anchor we had problems with the anchor dragging on two occasions due to tidal current changes...as well as failure to set in eel grass bottoms. No problems at all this year with the ground tackle upgraded.

Regards,

Terry Ney
Compac 27 "SV Paradiso"
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Old 01-11-2016, 15:52   #37
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

With 1/4 chain I would be considering all chain rode particually if cruising in coral areas. With gloves should not be too difficult to handle by hand.

Cheers
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Old 01-11-2016, 16:00   #38
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

I think everyone needs to remember we're talking about a 26' Chrysler. Putting 200' of chain in the bow of this boat does not make sense.
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Old 01-11-2016, 16:17   #39
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

Thanks for the details on your boat (and anchor performance!) I have a genuine Bruce but it's only 7.5kg (right in the middle), which is why I'm upgrading to the 25# Mantus. I'll save the Bruce and Fortress (on the boat), but they won't be my primary.

Yes, I know Sextons!!! Also a FUN place! Do you know of any other used marine supply places in Portland or surrounding areas? We're hoping to get up there after Christmas to do some shopping. =D

200' of chain? We're not going to coral areas... probably anchoring in real shallow areas (with the swing keel), so yes, the weight would be too much, especially with adding the 25# Mantus with a new bowsprit up front.

I've received a lot more replies from my same question on other sites and the unanimous opinion is that the 25# will be way more than enough for our boat! So, that part is done! Thank you everyone!

I'm definitely going with 1/4" BBB (length will be somewhere between 30' and 50'), also going with 3-strand and pretty sure I'll be going with nylon due to cost (I have two more anchors I want to upgrade with same chain and rode! They both have only 10'-15' of chain and probably less length in their rodes than I would like), but undecided between 1/2" and 5/8". Don't need to decide right away.



Thanks again!
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Old 01-11-2016, 17:46   #40
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

Quote:
I'm definitely going with 1/4" BBB (length will be somewhere between 30' and 50')
If you are not going to use a windlass, you can likely save some money by using proof coil chain rather than BBB. The BBB link size is considerably shorter, which is good for engaging a gypsy, but offers no advantage that i know of for hand-hauling.

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Old 01-11-2016, 18:04   #41
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

Thank you Jim!
Honestly, I've been researching for months on the whole anchor "thing" with way too many numbers going though my head! LOL!

What I need to do is sit down and write down the numbers (strength of each component), so that I'm not combining a lower # with a higher number (makes sense? Trying to "balance out" each component to meet a similar strength... I know... Over thinking again! LOL!) But I think you know what I mean. (Doesn't make sense matching a chain with X load strength and a rode that is much higher or lower (Although I like the idea of a thicker rode for chafe reasons.)

I need to back to a chart I found that shows the stress Pounds of pull) of different weight boats at different wind MPH and start from there.

Hope this makes sense?

I do thank you for pointing that out though!

Richard

(Ha! I also need to find out if we're getting a windlass! If i find a used one at the used chandlaries, then the BBB chain makes sense. LOL! Again, WAY too much info going through my brain and I have work I'm involved with and none of this will matter right now... I "thought" I'd get a simple answer to my original post...

You'd think that I would have learned after reading so many countless threads on anchors and anchoring that this subject more than most is NEVER simple! LOL!

Thanks again!
Richard
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Old 01-11-2016, 18:37   #42
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

I really should be working (but it's after 6PM).

Went to Mantus and checked out their rode sizing chart (I've seen others and have saved them somewhere on my computer, but I'm going to start with theirs and use their 30' boat" example (no weight specified, but I'm guessing I'm getting a safety buffer using the 30' boat rather than the 25' boat... Playing it safe within the theme of "one size up")

Mantus: 30' boat:
At 42 knts 1,400lbs pull
At 60 knts 2,800lbs pull

Think this is high? Low?

1/4" G4 Hi-Test 2,600lbs (1/4" proof is rated at 1,300lbs and only 40 cents cheaper per foot)

1/2" 3-strand nylon is rated at 7,500lbs ($1.09/ft) I can't see going with 3/8" diam and considering that 3-strand will be stiffer than the braid, it will be much easier to stow than the 5/8" (rated at 11,650lbs.)

Even if I loose strength on the 1/2" due to heat, moisture etc, I just can't imagine loosing enough strength to become the weak link? (no pun intended)

So using the lowest common denominator of the 1/4" G4 Hi Test chain, my weak link should be the chain at 2,600lbs (as long as I don't use a weaker swivel/shackle...)

Now to research swivels (Might make it easier to handle using the 3-strand) and shackles, hoping to find both that are rated for 2,600lbs or higher.

OK... enough numbers for the day/night! I'm done! =O =D

Old Far Side/Gary Larson cartoon: Kid/student, sitting in front of the class with his hand raised in the air: "Teacher... Can I be excused? I think my brain is full!"

LOL!

Thanks again to everyone! You've given me some great insight, got me to change directions, re-consider, learn more and help me understand to come up with my own plans that I can feel comfortable/safe with...

Oh Geeze! I just can't stop! How many pounds can I really expect a 7,000# boat to pull in 60kts? (No I'm not planning to anchor in this, but just in case and as a safety buffer...)

Still laughing at myself here!
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Old 01-11-2016, 20:14   #43
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

Let those number work into your brain. There are many factors that you will become aware of. Some like various chain grades and sizes use different WLL limits (some are factor of 3 some are factor of 4 of breaking strength).

Shackles... Look into Crosby G-209A or the like.

I'm sure you have thought about what this all attaches to on your boat. Bonding in "large/strong" backing plates to keep the deck from ripping out.

Know where your weak point is likely to be. Do you loose the whole kit or does it part at the anchor? Losing the whole thing in a storm might just allow you get the boat moving and save it. Of course you lost the rode.

But thinking it through and the research I know that you are doing will pay off.

Given the size of your boat and your proposed stomping grounds at least for the first few years give some leeway in the learning curve. You will not need it all right out of the box one can hope.

Regards
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Old 02-11-2016, 07:11   #44
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

thanks for the link for the shackle.
More so, thanks for reminding me of the "whole picture"... I was planning on reinforcing the deck but hadn't thought about a "planned" weak link... deciding "where" I want that to be... lots of choices for different outcomes.

And yes, most importantly, thank you for reminding me that I don't have to figure out all of this right now.



I do need to get refocused on my work at hand.
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Old 22-02-2017, 11:03   #45
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Re: Mantus: Which size for our boat?

Hi Guys.
Want to thank everyone again for all your help!!!

Taking a break from working and I'm ALWAYS reading here on everything "boating". LOL! Found this thread and went through it again and realized I never came back to share what we actually got!

First off, Kim at Columbus marine Exchange in PDX found us a windlass! The exact one I was hoping for. S-L manual anchorman (separate rode and chain gypsy)... For $300!!!! =D uses a regular winch handle and has an offset insertion point for greater leverage. Just took it apart and all looks finee, some cleaning and grease and it will be perfect!

We ended up with the #25 Mantus Caution: I printed out their full size paper pattern to create a mock up for the bow roller and it was off a little from the actual anchor. Not sure if it's the anchor or the print out, but glad I didn't start designing the bow roller until now. Going to make a 1/4" plywood mock up to fit and layout everything.

We also have a request with Kim for 50' of 5/16 G4. I definitely wanted the length as well as the weight and the gypsy on the windlass is set up for 5/16" G4 so it's fine like that. Also, with the windlass, not as concerned about bringing up the chain/anchor once we've broken free and hauling straight up.

Decided on 150' of 1/2" 8plait braid with a metal thimble spliced in.

I want to order a couple of Crosby G-209A shackles for chain to metal thimble but not sure about fitting the shackle through the thimble... Considering 3/8" shackle, but then would it fit the 5/16" chain???

We also decided to get the S-2 Mantus swivel (We plan on spending a lot of time anchored in the same spot and figured for the low price it wouldn't hurt.) As a prototype designer/machinist, all I can say is "WOW"!!! These swivels are not only ingenious ("Fails" designed out of it), but also machined of SS that looks like they could be run over with a tank and maybe only get scratched!

We're keeping our original Bruce, but putting it in the bottom of our anchor locker. I originally thought of mounting both anchors on the bow but after thinking about it, it didn't make sense. With the new windlass, we'll be using our Mantus as our daily anchor and there's not much room on our bow. The Bruce will also be fitted with the 50' 5/16" chain, swivel, shackle and 1/2" braid... It will be nice to have it set up ready to go but out of the way.

The Fortress will be on our stern and we'll use our old chain and 3 strand nylon for it.

Spent some time this morning revising our to do and to buy list... As it was, it would NEVER get done before we leave in July for the San Juans! LOL! So much of the original list I had categorized as "must do" (as in: I'd never leave home with out it all! LOLOL! As it sits now, we already spent a month on board up at the lake and all was fine.) Really hard for me to delete items from the list, but most of it can be saaved for our Sea of Cortez trip in the winter and the rest, before heading over to the ICW... and besides,Tresa keeps reminding me that my first 10 day trip up to the SJ's, was in a San Juan 21 with only a compass, a paper chart, a few guide books and an off brand Danforth copy with no chain! She kind of helped me put everything into perspective... We both sailed back in the day before GPS... Now I'm thinking of carrying a back up? lol!

Our boat has a depth, knot, wind, wind direction, VHF (we also have a hand held unit), and so much more! My list is down to one and a half pages and that includes new trailer tires, repacking bearings, spare swing keel cable, mounting the windlass/bow roller and probably more that will not get done...

Living in Marina del Rey, I recall looking at all the "cruising boats" that never left their dock listening to explanations that it wasn't "ready yet"... I also heard many say a boat that leaves port is NEVER ready! LOL!

Anyway, just wanted to thank you all again and let you know where we are.

Once the windlass and bow roller is set up, I'll post some photos.

Best,
Richard
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