Mantus Anchor Swivel Break

[zboss]

I was following the guidelines for titling after I got my hand slapped by a mod back then The thread is several years old and with enough of the mantus swivels out there we should be hearing some feedback on the robustness of the swivel.

I have had mine on and used for anchoring maybe 50% of each year since I started the thread and so far I haven't seen any rusting, pitting, or other issues you may see from stainless steel being submerged for so long and so often in a saltwater environment.

I haven't heard of them falling off or falling apart even considering the unusual design. That being said, both my spade on the Cabo Rico and my Mantus 2 anchor on my Manta both come up randomly but almost never straight on. We always have to use a gaff to push the anchor around to line it up.

[Tortuga's Lie]

I've had my Mantus swivel on for more than a couple of seasons now and can pretty much sum it up as saying that it still looks in perfect condition. I do take mine apart from time to time and I do not anchor out continually as I am not a full time cruiser yet (still paying my dues).......but I do anchor a fair amount here on the Chesapeake. My anchor comes up in different orientations as well but with a boat hook, it's quite easy to spin it.

[BlackHeron]

We anchor about 90% percent of the time now and probably need to replace the seizing wire every couple of months. It depends on the bottom I suppose. I have a big roll of SS wire from Harbor Freight so maybe it isn't the best quality in the world. It does "stain" a bit when used on deck for seizing turnbuckles and such.

I use two separate wires on the swivel and follow the instructions that originally came with it. I am a commercial electrician and used to race motorcycles so I definitely have a lot of experience with seizing/safety-wiring and how not to over-stress or over-tighten the twist and to wrap multiple turns before the twist.

There is a lot of crap on and just below the sea floor to catch and grab at the wire especially when setting the Mantus anchor deep and hard. Even just dragging it through mud and clay must beat on it when the swivel gets dragged through it. Small grains of sand, pebbles, rocks, oyster shells, coral bits, fishing leaders and sinkers, old chain and cables, sticks, stumps...it is a wonder it lasts as long as it does.

I give it a look see every time I weigh anchor and replace when necessary if I see a strand broken. It usually breaks right at the first twist where it is the weakest spot no matter how careful one was when wrapping and twisting.

[Charlie Hoffack]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

We anchor about 90% percent of the time now and probably need to replace the seizing wire every couple of months. It depends on the bottom I suppose. I have a big roll of SS wire from Harbor Freight so maybe it isn't the best quality in the world. It does "stain" a bit when used on deck for seizing turnbuckles and such.

I use two separate wires on the swivel and follow the instructions that originally came with it. I am a commercial electrician and used to race motorcycles so I definitely have a lot of experience with seizing/safety-wiring and how not to over-stress or over-tighten the twist and to wrap multiple turns before the twist.

There is a lot of crap on and just below the sea floor to catch and grab at the wire especially when setting the Mantus anchor deep and hard. Even just dragging it through mud and clay must beat on it when the swivel gets dragged through it. Small grains of sand, pebbles, rocks, oyster shells, coral bits, fishing leaders and sinkers, old chain and cables, sticks, stumps...it is a wonder it lasts as long as it does.

I give it a look see every time I weigh anchor and replace when necessary if I see a strand broken. It usually breaks right at the first twist where it is the weakest spot no matter how careful one was when wrapping and twisting.

Maybe not the right thread but I am restoring a person 365. I’m not sure of the tonnage but the anchor seemed like it was waaay too small so I bought a 45lb danforth for 200 bucks. Overkill?

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hoffack

Maybe not the right thread but I am restoring a person 365. I’m not sure of the tonnage but the anchor seemed like it was waaay too small so I bought a 45lb danforth for 200 bucks. Overkill?

Oh Lord, Ye know not what Ye ask...

[Charlie Hoffack]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Oh Lord, Ye know not what Ye ask...

I guess not. Thanks.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hoffack

Maybe not the right thread but I am restoring a person 365. I’m not sure of the tonnage but the anchor seemed like it was waaay too small so I bought a 45lb danforth for 200 bucks. Overkill?

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Oh Lord, Ye know not what Ye ask...

Originally Posted by Charlie Hoffack

I guess not. Thanks.

Probably more useful to start a new thread, Charlie. That way you can make the title and the question more specific to your boat, that anchor, etc.

-Chris

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hoffack

I guess not. Thanks.

If you can set it and retrieve it easy enough then it’s not overkill. If other people laugh at it when they see it then it’s probably the right size.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

If you can set it and retrieve it easy enough then it’s not overkill. If other people laugh at it when they see it then it’s probably the right size.

This is the best philosophy. Fit the largest anchor you can comfortably accommodate and manage.

The Danforth anchor has exceptional holding ability in a softish substrate with a reasonably constant direction of force, but can be very poor in other circumstances.

While more expensive, some of the modern anchor designs remove these limitations.

[Charlie Hoffack]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Probably more useful to start a new thread, Charlie. That way you can make the title and the question more specific to your boat, that anchor, etc.



-Chris

Thanks Chris. Im grateful for your help. I’ll definitely do it. New to this.

[Ultra Marine West]

Originally Posted by grantmc

There have been quite a number of cases where the swivel fails. It's caused by fitting the swivel directly to the anchor (wrong) and when side load is applied voila, broken swivel.

There should always be a few (3-4) links of chain BETWEEN the anchor and swivel, to ensure it can't get side loading when the boat swings around the anchor.

We didn’t want to get involved as that is about another swivel brand.

However, I see that some of you came to the same dead-end “the swivels have a design issue for side loads” with pictures of very low-quality ones failing.

As another member mentioned, the “New age” swivels, such as the ULTRA Flip Swivel, do not share the design or engineering weaknesses of the ones that have been breaking for decades.

Here is just an example, UFS10-35 on a 33kg R…. V…. taking an extreme side load and surviving without any deformation while the anchor shank breaks.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Ultra Marine West

We didn’t want to get involved as that is about another swivel brand.

However, I see that some of you came to the same dead-end “the swivels have a design issue for side loads” with pictures of very low-quality ones failing.

As another member mentioned, the “New age” swivels, such as the ULTRA Flip Swivel, do not share the design or engineering weaknesses of the ones that have been breaking for decades.

Here is just an example, UFS10-35 on a 33kg R…. V…. taking an extreme side load and surviving without any deformation while the anchor shank breaks.

Without commenting on swivels, or especially stainless swivels, I can't help but notice that the photographed (partial) anchor was made of stainless. Ground tackle falls solidly in the camp where "the cheapest material (galvanized iron) is far and away better than the expensive material (stainless)." Right up there with fiber lines (I'm not comparing to chain), where the cheapest (nylon) is much better than more expensive (dacron, etc). When the best is the cheapest, why ever go with more expensive? LOL.


Note, I am NOT saying that rock-bottom materials are best -- galvanized iron runs a huge spectrum. Crosby galvanized shackles are better than Home Depot no-name, and G4 is better than no-name. Just that good galvanized iron is miles ahead of SS.

[Ultra Marine West]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Without commenting on swivels, or especially stainless swivels, I can't help but notice that the photographed (partial) anchor was made of stainless. Ground tackle falls solidly in the camp where "the cheapest material (galvanized iron) is far and away better than the expensive material (stainless)." Right up there with fiber lines (I'm not comparing to chain), where the cheapest (nylon) is much better than more expensive (dacron, etc). When the best is the cheapest, why ever go with more expensive? LOL.


Note, I am NOT saying that rock-bottom materials are best -- galvanized iron runs a huge spectrum. Crosby galvanized shackles are better than Home Depot no-name, and G4 is better than no-name. Just that good galvanized iron is miles ahead of SS.

Yes, it is a stainless anchor, but unlike you think the problem is coming from the design, not the material they used.

That is a common problem of the whole anchor market today. Most of the other anchor manufacturers just build an anchor in stainless that was originally designed for another material.

The material is a part of the design; that is why we say “ULTRA Anchor is designed to shine.” It is an anchor designed stainless steel and comes stainless steel only with lifetime warranty.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

This is the best philosophy. Fit the largest anchor you can comfortably accommodate and manage.

The Danforth anchor has exceptional holding ability in a softish substrate with a reasonably constant direction of force, but can be very poor in other circumstances.

While more expensive, some of the modern anchor designs remove these limitations.

Just anchored a few days ago at same time as a neighboring boat with a CQR. I did my usual lay out Mantus and chain at 5:1, back down hard, have the boat stop suddenly (like it does 99.9% of time with Mantus). Repeat a hard back down, same thing. Done, engine off, sundowners ready in under 5 min. The other guys stayed on his foredeck for 25-30 min, slowly tugging on his CQR as he let out scope to let it "settle" - the usual old school approach. Good news he stayed set despite a 180 deg windshift overnight. But made me chuckle and remember the "good old days"

Danforth type are notoriously unreliable with large windshifts which require resettting. Ok, enough thread drift.

[BlackHeron]

While one can design around most of the issues around using stainless steel for anchors it doesn't really change the fact that those issues still exist to one extent or another. All that extra design just adds even more cost to an already expensive material that really adds nothing in the end but some cosmetic benefits.

Personally I'd rather buy a series of galvanized anchors at a substantially tiny fraction of the financial outlay over the decades I might be out cruising and not have to lose sleep worrying about a material that is known for failing with very little visual clues on the surface that such failures are immanent.

Our Mantus M1 is now 3 years old and has spent hundreds of nights and days on the bottom as well as being splashed with salt water up in the bow the rest nif the time when it wasn't. The galvanizing shows no sign of failing any time soon. Even if we had to replace or maybe regalvanize it every 8-10 years we would be far ahead after 30 years of cruising. Besides, perhaps in another 5-10 years some brilliant inventor might just come out with yet another leap in anchor design right about the time we were in the market to replace our existing galvanized anchor, or have it regalvanized.

Or we might just lose it and not be able to recover it. I just can't see paying the kind of ka-ching that decent SS ground tackle represents and throwing all that cash into one bucket only to have it sit at the bottom over half of the time the way we cruise. All for it to be bright shiny sitting up there on the roller.