Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

[DeepFrz]

Have you seen this thread?

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ng-126073.html

[hpeer]

@Deep,

I've seen the thread but have not looked at it. I'm still working through my backlog of Kardashian photos, they sounded more entertaining. Is there something there I should see? Should I be embarassed?

Yea Gads...102 pages!

[DeepFrz]

After busting your holding tank I should say so...ooops, that's another thread.

I don't know if you SHOULD do anything but its an interesting thread. Lots of pictures of good and bad anchoring techniques and good and bad anchors.

[hpeer]

Oh NO! I misspoke, 179 pages and growing.

Far more than the Kardashians.

[Steve Bedford]

[QUOTE=evm1024;2375939]I break anchors down into a few generations.

"The old generation (CQR, Luke, etc)

The last generation (Delta, Bruce etc)

The new generation (Mantus, Manson, Rocna etc)

And a special generation (Fortress etc)"

Whenever someone creates a list like this, there ends up being missing products (I guess these products are relegated to 'etc.'). What I do know that there is at least one fast setting, superior holding, and exceptionally strong anchor brand missing by name from this listing. I suspect there are others as well.

Steve Bedford

[Fortress]

[QUOTE=Steve Bedford;2376191]

Originally Posted by evm1024

I break anchors down into a few generations.

"The old generation (CQR, Luke, etc)

The last generation (Delta, Bruce etc)

The new generation (Mantus, Manson, Rocna etc)

And a special generation (Fortress etc)"

Whenever someone creates a list like this, there ends up being missing products (I guess these products are relegated to 'etc.'). What I do know that there is at least one fast setting, superior holding, and exceptionally strong anchor brand missing by name from this listing. I suspect there are others as well.

Steve Bedford

Definitely the Spade is missing, arguably because if not for that innovative concave "scoop" design, then Manson/Rocna and later Mantus might not exist.

And of course the SUPER MAX, which as far as I know, predates the above designs.

[Steve Bedford]

"Definitely the Spade is missing, arguably because if not for that innovative concave "scoop" design, then Manson/Rocna and later Mantus might not exist.

And of course the SUPER MAX, which as far as I know, predates the above designs."

Of course predating depends on which designs are being referenced. I believe the Luke was a 19th century design, CQR is 1934, Danforth and Delta are 1940's, and Bruce 1970's. Max Anchors, concave design, were patented1993 and Super MAX Anchors (same concave design but different steel specs) were started in 1996 but dales began in 1997. Spade Anchors, I believe, are 1998. I can not locate a concave design anchor prior to the MAX Anchor. Perhaps there is one and I am in error.

Steve

[Panope]

Similar to categorizing people by age, race, religion, or sex orientation; labeling anchors will eventually lead to pitfalls.

Better to treat them has individuals.


Steve

[evm1024]

[QUOTE=Steve Bedford;2376191]

Originally Posted by evm1024

I break anchors down into a few generations.

"The old generation (CQR, Luke, etc)

The last generation (Delta, Bruce etc)

The new generation (Mantus, Manson, Rocna etc)

And a special generation (Fortress etc)"

Whenever someone creates a list like this, there ends up being missing products (I guess these products are relegated to 'etc.'). What I do know that there is at least one fast setting, superior holding, and exceptionally strong anchor brand missing by name from this listing. I suspect there are others as well.

Steve Bedford

No intention to make a comprehensive taxonomy of anchors.

The point made stands - new generation (and special) anchors stand heads above old generation anchors and the last generation covers the space between.

[Steve Bedford]

"The point made stands - new generation (and special) anchors stand heads above old generation anchors and the last generation covers the space between."

Understand. However, leaving one or two anchors out without a "designation" leads a reader to make an assumption as to where this "non-mentioned" anchor belongs. Is it a new generation, special anchor, or old generation. I feel this statement, "anchors stand above" is unfair. There a lot of very pleased captains with anchors you did not mention that they feel stand "above others" based on their own experience as well as independent testing. As I always have said, there are great anchors out there to choose from. Not all anchors work the same or as well in certain situations. An anchor that beats the forces of Mother Nature is indeed the best anchor.

I will not speak for Spade but based on this designation list and since the MAX and Super MAX was the probably the first concave fluke design and since it was introduced long after the old generation anchors and since it's patent date does not "qualify" for someone's designation as a "new generation, I will be proud to be a "special" anchor. However, I am not sure what "special" means because there are many many people with a Fortress as a main bower. Same for the Super MAX as a main bower. I would definitely not support that a Super MAX is only appropriate for special situations. I would call a Fortress, a Super MAX, and a Spade as a "special" anchor in a different interpretation of special.

Steve

[Stu Jackson]

C'mon, he used ETC. in each of his mentions. Rather than bash him for not being "all inclusive" why not just add to the list?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by hpeer

...So, to sum up my 2¢, look at your system from anchor to attachment point, get the heaviest new gen anchor you can handle, match the rode to your max anticipated wind load. Check/upgrade your attachment points to hold that load. Spend what you need to have a decent system appropriate to your cruising ground. Forget bling. Relax.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

There are literally thousands of happy owners of Rocna, Manson, Spade, Mantus and other modern anchors. All of them are way better than older designs. There may be small differences in performance between the models, and the differences may change in varied conditions. To argue about the superiority of one over another is a waste of time and bandwidth. Buy one that meets your budget, that fits your bow setup and is available in your area, and stop obsessing about minor matters of superiority.

I’m with these two learned fellows.

Trying to argue which “new gen” anchor is best is like fighting over which shade of blue is the nicest. Best will depend on the situation, but they all seem do do a pretty good job when used appropriately. BTW, for me, “new gen” includes Spade and Super Max, along with Mantus, Rocna, Manson, and probably a few others.

Your bower should be the largest “new gen” anchor that you and your boat systems can reasonably manage under most conditions. This anchor needs to be properly matched with windlass, adequate rode, roller, shackles, snubbers and deck attachments. Get the one that fits best with your system. And learn to use it properly.

I’ve seen boats with the identical anchor to mine try and anchor next to me in the same conditions, and watched them fail time and time again b/c of poor technique. New gen anchors are more forgiving of bad technique, and bigger is better (to a point) when it comes to getting a good set. But no anchor will hold a cruising boat when the wind pipes up unless it is set properly.

[Steve Bedford]

First, I agree with Mike ORielly's comments.

Second, "C'mon, he used ETC. in each of his mentions. Rather than bash him for not being "all inclusive" why not just add to the list?"

I don't believe I was bashing anyone. However, that is up to the interpretation of others. If my comments are deemed bashing to then I apologize. For those who know me, bashing someone else and another anchor is not my style. I am just pointing out that "etc" is not acceptable to me and I believe I am adding something to the discussion regarding clarifications of categorizing anchors.

Steve

[sloopdogg]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Great post there. That's the issue with even raising the question of angle. What matters more is real world setting. Videos by panope and pictures by noelex and others are far more valuable than an article debating this and raising questions that are not borne out in real world conditions. If mantus really sets at a shallower angle than rocna in real world, then how in the world did it hold much better in soft mud on chesapeake than rocna (and manson if I remember right)? To me it means that the setting angle isn't worth debating.

And if it sounds like I have a stake in this, I guess I do. Bought a mantus years ago for my prior boat, based on great boat show interaction with their folks. Loved it. Couldn't believe setting ability. Then neeves and PS started raising theoretical shank issue (despite that many anchors like danforth and fortress have slender shanks for generations) so when I bought my current boat, I decided to get a rocna. Decidedly different experience than mantus- several drags on wind shifts, several times it didn't set. Finally sold it and got a mantus. Amazingly better on all counts. So I was initially swayed away from a superior anchor due to someone's writing who seemed intent on questioning mantus. If someone reads latest PS, they may come to erroneous conclusion despite a mere passing reference to how much better mantus fared in their real world testing earlier.

Hi I was wondering what size rocna and what size Mantus anchors you chose for your Tartan 40. I'm very new to anchoring and using a CQR 45 that came with my boat. It's worked well on an all chain rode so far but, I have not seen any real windy weather. I'm considering upgrading to a more modern anchor. I currently own a Rocna 35 that has never been used but it seem just a hair too small for my T40. I'd add it as a lunch hook to save the 12 lbs but it is so big and hard to store

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by sloopdogg

Hi I was wondering what size rocna and what size Mantus anchors you chose for your Tartan 40. I'm very new to anchoring and using a CQR 45 that came with my boat. It's worked well on an all chain rode so far but, I have not seen any real windy weather. I'm considering upgrading to a more modern anchor. I currently own a Rocna 35 that has never been used but it seem just a hair too small for my T40. I'd add it as a lunch hook to save the 12 lbs but it is so big and hard to store

Currently a 55 lb mantus. I’m sure 45 would be adequate but the 55 is great and hasn’t let me down